pH buffering

[wsdiscus]

Pat,
I already have 2 cups of crushed coral in zippered bags inside the tank

Looks like water changes every day or 2 is what is required
I don't know that aging the water is very practical for me

[bluelagoon]

Can you take the coral out of the bag and put it in the filter?

[brewmaster15]

I have discus and pH is about 6.8-7 from tap but can drop below 6 with aging
i am using crushed coral in tank for buffering but it doesn't seem to effect it too much
any suggestions? I don't really like having to buffer the water but other than very frequent water changes I don't really have a choice
Thanks!

I would use crushed coral in a nylon stocking in the filter... Your water is low in KH ..I have similar issue here. When you say "it can.drop below 6 with aging but is 6.8-7 out of the tap".Thats not the same kind of Aging we normally mean . In your Tank you have the nitrogen cycle that consumes your KH and brings your pH down if the KH isnt sufficient. You also.have off gassing as a factor .You can compensate for low KH with more volume and frequency of water change or you bump up the KH.An easy and cheap way to do that with crushed coral. I use it here alot in my non breeder tanks.If you dont buffer the water and you slack on the water changes or over feed /over stock you risk a pH crash. When that happens you cam really mess up your fish.(been there done that.)

I would suggest you get a 5 gal pail... fill it with water from the tap. Measure the pH and add an airstone. Let it aerate (Age/off gassing) 24 hours or at least overnight . Measure the pH again. That will tell your true pH. You may not need aging...just buffer or more water changes.

Hth,
Al

[wsdiscus]

Thanks Al!
I'll let you know how that comes out

[wsdiscus]

Yes indeed

[wsdiscus]

Yes

[bluelagoon]

Our water is about the same.I like it tho.A lot better than hard water IMO.I would do and still do large frequent WC's to compensate crashes.The fish of all species seem to like large frequent WC's from what I can observe.Diseases also seem less likely.

[bluelagoon]

Just a foot note sorta thing.The sulfates here in the lakes are beginning to ease up after decades of coal burning.Same glad we all know how dirty that stuff can be.

[wsdiscus]

Just a foot note sorta thing.The sulfates here in the lakes are beginning to ease up after decades of coal burning.Same glad we all know how dirty that stuff can be.

Yeah
My water supply is out of the Yadkin River
Pretty soft for city water but low kh
I had hard water in SC and everything died but mollies and other similar species

[wsdiscus]

I would use crushed coral in a nylon stocking in the filter... Your water is low in KH ..I have similar issue here. When you say "it can.drop below 6 with aging but is 6.8-7 out of the tap".Thats not the same kind of Aging we normally mean . In your Tank you have the nitrogen cycle that consumes your KH and brings your pH down if the KH isnt sufficient. You also.have off gassing as a factor .You can compensate for low KH with more volume and frequency of water change or you bump up the KH.An easy and cheap way to do that with crushed coral. I use it here alot in my non breeder tanks.If you dont buffer the water and you slack on the water changes or over feed /over stock you risk a pH crash. When that happens you cam really mess up your fish.(been there done that.)

I would suggest you get a 5 gal pail... fill it with water from the tap. Measure the pH and add an airstone. Let it aerate (Age/off gassing) 24 hours or at least overnight . Measure the pH again. That will tell your true pH. You may not need aging...just buffer or more water changes.

Hth,
Al

Ok Al,
I followed your instructions and aged a 5 g bucket of water overnight. The first 24 hours the pH dropped from 7.0 to 6.3
in 48 hours the pH dropped from 6.3 to 4.3! I couldn't believe it so i tested my tank 24 hours after a water change and my result was 5.8 (from 7.0 out of tap)
What is your recommendation at this point? I am running one Fluval 406 at the moment with Matrix, Purigen, and a water polisher along with the course black foam that comes with the filter. I have 13 Discus in a 75 g tank ( a little overcrowded i know) I have 2 bags of crushed coral in the bottom of the tank that i will move into the filter tomorrow....the reality is even with a daily water change, i will drop my pH more than .3 on a daily basis...there has to be a better way

[RogueDiscus]

Just catching up on this thread.I still think it's odd your test water dropped to 4.3. Can anyone with more experience explain this? I think Mervin's idea that your tap is buffered but then dissipates makes sense. I missed how big your fish are, but yes, you are over stocked in the 75 if they are semi-adults or bigger. Did you say you're changing about 50% every 3 days. Might not be enough kH for the load even if you had enough bacteria. Need more change volume? Just throwing some ideas out there for folks to add to.

[DJW]

I think there is something wrong with your pH tester. You can't get water to go as low as 4.3 unless you add an acid or inject a bunch of CO2. With a KH of 2 your aged water should end up closer to pH 7. Some electronic pH meters don't work well in very soft water. I would calibrate the meter and add 1/2 teaspoon of salt to the bucket and see what it reads.

Some water districts add hydroxide alkalinity to bump the pH up, but this is temporary because as the water ages the hydroxide alkalinity is converted by CO2 into bicarbonate alkalinity, which has a much smaller effect on pH. But the KH doesn't change since the KH test is measuring total alkalinity.

[RogueDiscus]

Thanks Dan! I'm going to give myself credit for trying to ask the right question.

Adding salt after calibrating is to adjust the meter for softness, right?

[DJW]

I'm assuming that Morgan is using an electronic pH meter. These meters need the water to have some conductivity in order to work right, so adding a pinch of salt is to increase the conductivity (TDS) of the water. It would only be to see if the meter is struggling in soft water. I have had cheepo meters that wandered around aimlessly in water with less than 20 or 30 ppm of TDS, but the good ones from American Marine seem to do better in soft water. The salt itself will change the pH slightly, but not enough to matter for this.

IME a KH of 2 is fine in a lightly stocked tank, but in a heavily stocked tank with WC every 3 days you might have pH drops big enough to be a problem, and some coral would be good as a backstop.

[JamesW]

Consistency is key, you could try adding a tablespoon of sodium carbonate (if you can find it) or baking soda to your water aging barrel for a week of water changes and re-testing your water. If you go down that path then you need to keep it up or taper it slowly. Crushed coral should have some effect, increasing that or increasing the water flow through it should help.