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Thread: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

  1. #31
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Oh, if you are wondering how the Sera test is to use:
    - fill big glass vial with 10 ml tank water (and the mark on the vial used to be off by as much as 2 ml, better lately)
    -add six drops of liquid 1 and shake
    -add micro-spoonful of metal powder 2,shake for 15 seconds
    -add six drops of liquid 3 and shake
    -add 6 drops of liquid 4 and shake
    Wait 5 minutes and read
    Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 09-17-2018 at 06:03 AM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Ok so,
    I'm back from my few days away with some interesting (to me anyway) on my test kit

    When I went away my ammonia was between 3 and 4 with nitrite and nitrate at 0

    Ammonia
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    To me this looks about .25ppm, This reduction in ammonia could be completely or partially a result of the drip system that was running at about 70% with no water being manually removed only flowing over the sump drain to the outside.

    Nitrite
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    Absolute zero, this suggests the ammonia is reducing because of the drip overflow. this would at least show proof of concept of the drip system being able to manage some ammonia's. I wonder how much different this would have looked with the manual removal of 70 liters a number of times a day. The same water would have gone through the system but the removal would have been different.

    Nitrate
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    This makes my last thoughts on the nitrites a little redundant as there is about 5 ppm of nitrate in the water. That means the cycle has well and truly begun.

    This aquarium was started completely clean without seeding from another aquarium. I did add Seachem Stability as per instructions for a week at the start of the cycle about 2 weeks ago now.

    I'M going to add ammonia at about 4ppm and leave it 24 hours to see how it processes that amount in a set period of time to know how much ammonia is being processed already !.
    This appears to be happening quicker than i expected. I'm looking forward to what tomorrow brings !!

    Mick
    Last edited by MickO'S; 09-23-2018 at 08:31 AM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Ok more progress,

    Ammonia
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    My ammonia was about the 4 colour on the scale. As is shown in this photo its down to about .50, some serious bacteria in that stability. It seems to be working for me.

    Nitrite
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    This is about .25 so good progress on this too.

    Nitrate
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    About 5 on this reading.

    I've taken a reading after i added ammonia to make sure I have the amount added dialed in,
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr
    I guess this is somewhere between 2 and 4, I think closer to 4.

    I'll have a look tomorrow to see how this continues progressing

    Mick

  4. #34
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    We'll see how the ammonia drops over the next few hours, good to see the drip overflow is working but what is the point of having it working as the tank is cycling?

  5. #35
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Hey Paul,

    In the 24 hours between yesterday and today you see a really good approx. a 3.5 point drop in ammonia. This is really on the road to cycling certainly from ammonia to nitrite with some changes on the nitrate so bacteria exists already.

    As for the drip system, its mixing ro and tap into the aquarium I'm working on stabilizing the ph in the aquarium and at the point I want it at while the aquarium is cycling. It would be a pain to have to spend another few weeks balancing the ph after the cycle finished.
    I'm not in a rush for the cycle either even though it is moving on at a pace. From the time I order my baby discus it will be approx 2-4 weeks for the lfs to get them in and another 2 weeks quarantine in the shop so that's 4-6 weeks from now so that's plenty of time at this point to get the aquarium fully cycled and the ph perfectly stable giving my best chance of some modicum of success with the babies.

    That's the theory any way

    Mick

  6. #36
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Sounds good, things are happening fast (although bacteria that transform nitrite into nitrate are even slower to multiply than the ones that transform ammonia).

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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Thanks Paul, your information and responses are invaluable to my project!

    Mick

  8. #38
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Just can't wait to see fish in your tank! I can imagine you must be even more eager!

  9. #39
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Right today's update,

    The results,
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr

    Ammonia
    This has moved about 3.5ppm again in the last 24 hours so this is becoming a pattern, how many days will this last ??

    Nitrite
    is now 1ppm which is a big move from 3 days ago when it had a barely detectable but now there is a seriously heavy colour in the liquid.

    Nitrate
    This is a serious reaction to the chemical in this one, it's between 10 and 20 ppm


    So far I find this an interesting process. As I said back at the start of the thread I have always done a cycle bringing media from my other aquariums. This one I wanted to do the best possible job i can so this is my first fishless cycle and all this is new to me. I have no idea where in the process I am but its great to see the changes happening.

    Mick
    Last edited by MickO'S; 09-25-2018 at 07:43 AM.

  10. #40
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    I would think within a week you would be good to go, anyway with the delay between ordering the fish and bringing them home you have plenty of time to spare. So time to get that order in, have you decided what strain/s and how many?

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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    I am putting in the order tomorrow so now is my last decision time !

    I spent a few weeks weeks going through colours of discus involving my wife and son in the decision. Then I decided on exact strains and from where I wanted them and wrote it down. Funnily I found a list of discus I had prepared about 4 years ago and the list was the same.

    So I'm getting 12 discus, 4 sets of 3 discus.
    3 blue diamonds
    3 red checkerboards
    3 flame red discus
    and 3 blue snakeskin or other similarly patterned fish. My hesitation is the peppering on snakeskins that people talk about. Any thoughts on this ??

    Mick

  12. #42
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Hi Mick, it is not snakeskins that pepper but PB discus. Most likely the checkerboards are PB and the flame red discus might be. In many of the modern PB strains peppering has be greatly reduced but some environmental factors can bring out some peppering like dark substrate, dark background (to a lesser extent) and any stress factors...illness, bullying, poor water quality etc. Note that there are PB snakeskins.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  13. #43
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    What Pat said! If you want nice "clean" fish make sure you tell your retailer clearly (maybe even by email or WhatsApp so you have it in writing), on the off chance what arrives from Germany is not up to the standard you expect

  14. #44
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Hey Pat and Paul,

    Just shows the depth of knowledge I have when it comes to Discus
    I've been dealing with my lfs for as long as its open, maybe 12 or 14 years and have always proved reliable. This is the first time ordering discus so will definitely will be having a longer conversation with them. The specialist discus man in store has already taken an interest in my setup and wont let anybody else have any input into the fish I'm getting. Hopefully this translates to quality discus.
    I could easily be my own worst enemy in this situation as I could so easily get carried away and accept the fish on offer rather than hold out for the best fish available.

    My hope is that they order a group of 10 or so of each colour and I will get first pick on them by being the first in store when they arrive. From what I have observed in the past they do order their fish in about this quantity when the order them in.

    Maybe this will be a bit of a fanciful notion as to how things will play out but I cant allow this project that is 4 years (and more if I'm honest) in the making stumble because I let myself get carried away.

    Thanks again for the input guys

    Mick
    Last edited by MickO'S; 09-25-2018 at 04:44 PM.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: starting bare bottom with juveniles hoping for hi-tech planted by Christmas 2020

    Well

    Last night we had a two and a half hour power cut and I'm fascinated to know if this has had any negative affect on the cycling process,

    so here goes ....!
    Untitled by Michael O’Sullivan, on Flickr

    Well thats some reaction by the ammonia bacteria! Down from a large and solid 4ppm to .25ppm, thats some change for 24 hours.

    The nitrite is now reading really high at between 2 and 5ppm. I wonder how that will change over the next 24 hours, will it continue to rise or will it start to keep up and get processed into nitrate or will it continue to rise.

    The nitrate is on the rise too, its now between 20 and 40ppm. I dont know will this start to get dealt with by bacteria at all, (anaerobic bacteria) that appears to take longer to establish from what I have read and watched on youtube.

    At the end of this week if my cycle has completed, or whenever it does I will start my water change process fully and will be able to assess its efficacy in managing nitrates in my aquarium................... Its a wonderfully interesting process !!

    Mick

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