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Thread: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

  1. #1
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    Hey everyone,

    Relative discus newbie here trying to figure out what sorts of system tweaks are most worthwhile in raising and caring for my fish. In the past there's been some discussion about the topic of HMAs or Whole House sediment/carbon filters, but seems like it's been a few years: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?76921

    One reason I ask is because my last experience with discus led some experienced folks to suspect I had a water issue that might have explained problems I had. (For one thing, there was something in the local paper about the lake/reservoir turning over at that particular time of year, leading to more carbon use at the treatment facility along with possible odor/sediment noticeable to the public.) So while I don't have chloramines and I'm not autochanging water, I've wondered about pre-filtering it to remove sediment/metals, and perhaps some other irritant(s) I'm not aware of.

    I've also observed that when I do water changes now, my discus don't seem quite as relieved or happy about it as I might expect them to relative to other fish, though I'm still trying to get a read on what's normal. I'm not sure I'd say they're stressed, but kind of in-between, I would say... despite aging, aerating, and temp matching. They recover within anywhere from 15 minutes to half an hour, it seems, and they may just be showing some predictable stress and shyness from my messing with the tank, but I've continued to wonder how much they like my water. (It's low TDS, about 40-50.)


    So, I've thought about putting something like this between my tap and the aging barrel: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...sc_sfl_title_1

    FWIW, I have an RO unit but don't really want to deal with waste water and remineralization, especially if it isn't necessary.

    So, anyone currently using or previously tried something like this? Why or why not? Would you try it if you were me, or leave well enough alone?

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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    Hi Bill, I really ca not comment on the unit you linked but to solve a similar problem I do this http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...unhappy+fishes.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


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    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    Thanks, Pat, this is really helpful. I think my fish will be happier with something similar. Seems like this type of filter may be that much more affordable now, and I'm inclined to do something, ideally as cheaply and as small space-wise as I can manage, as my discus "fish room" is basically a small corner of the master closet!

    One thing I notice is that your sediment filter removes particles down to 1 micron, while the cheaper alternatives I've noticed strain to 5. I'm wondering how much of a difference this might make, and if anyone has experiemented.

    --Bill

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    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    I went with this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074MHMHLH/

    Price was right at $25 and since I'm not installing it inline in my plumbing system I wasn't too worried about how tough and durable the housing would be. I bought the brass connections to go with it that convert to garden hose size and have it hooked up in the midst of some python hose. Will try it out and see whether I see a difference. Could always go the ceramic route if I don't mind slower flow rate and it seems warranted.

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    Registered Member jimg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    I also have reservoir water. I always had white feces problems with my discus no matter where they came from. I installed a whole house carbon 1.5cf, big blue 5 micron sediment filter and a sterillight 12gpm uv. made a major difference. although I had a bout with cryptobia and micro sporidians i still for years fought with micro organism problems. I shut the uv down and stopped the r/o about 2 years ago and since i lose one discus every so often.
    Jim

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    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    Hi Jim,

    Nice to know you saw a clear difference. I decided to do two 50% water changes today with the filtered water and it seemed as if the discus appreciated it tonight, and were quicker to lighten up and start moving as a group to the front of the tank. (One is still hanging back, but hopefully will come along.)

    From what I can tell 5 microns may prevent some protozoa from getting through, though it seems as though one would have to go smaller to have a chance of catching more pathogens, like cryptobia (i.e., less than 1 micron; see more here for specific ratings and terminology: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/crypto...o/filters.html) Short version is "absolute 1 micron"/"NSF 53" for non-R/O systems. (See here, too: https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/dri...r-filters.html). (Also, I was a little unclear about whether you did or didn't use R/O.)

    I'm a little on the fence about whether to change out or add more cartridges. For now will probably wait and watch the fish. Since UV can do a lot to make up the difference (except for cysts), I've wondered about whether this would be the place to use it. Curious why you did away with yours, though I know that I have a unit in a box somewhere that I once had on a tank. I am a little reluctant to add more equipment than is necessary--as we all know, more stuff means more to maintain, greater chance of leakage or eventual failure, etc.--but I have thought about digging out the unit I have, getting a new bulb, and putting it inline from the whole house filter to the aging barrel.

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    Registered Member jimg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    I did use r/o I would mix with tap to get needed stability about 75% r/o. I shut down system due to $350.00+ electric bills! for a few years I always had white feces problems no matter what I did until I started the system I mentioned earlier then it all stopped.
    I don't rememberer exactly but I have in mind that cryptobia jubilans is larger than 5 microns, crytosporidium is smaller, r/o needed to remove them. I did actually use a .5 micron sediment but lost house pressure after few weeks. when I went to 5 it still helped. uv kills off the stages after they are out of cysts. uv works treating water before the tank but must be sized correctly.
    Jim

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    I'm not quite sure I follow you here folks.
    Are you talking about presence of cryptobia , protozoas and other pathogens in a drinkable tap water ?
    Shouldn't chloramine or chlorine in our drinkable tap water prevent any presence of pathogens In our tap water ?

  9. #9
    Registered Member jimg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    yes you'd be surprised at what I have found scoping for things in our water. I would guess mostly because they only use up to 1.5% sodium hypochlorite and it don't effect the eggs
    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    I'm not quite sure I follow you here folks.
    Are you talking about presence of cryptobia , protozoas and other pathogens in a drinkable tap water ?
    Shouldn't chloramine or chlorine in our drinkable tap water prevent any presence of pathogens In our tap water ?
    Jim

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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    What dechlorinator are you using? How do you know your water doesn't have chloramine?

  11. #11
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    I'm not quite sure I follow you here folks.
    Are you talking about presence of cryptobia , protozoas and other pathogens in a drinkable tap water ?
    Shouldn't chloramine or chlorine in our drinkable tap water prevent any presence of pathogens In our tap water ?
    I think this is a reasonable question, but I guess I'm not surprised to see what Jim has found. Personally I was going based on the fact that experienced breeders in the forum often seem to get contamination in their systems even with good basic practices, there is a growing market for these kind of whole house filters these days (including with UV)--though maybe this is more sales-driven than need-based, and it seems like the CDC info is perhaps not only relevant for areas of the world beyond the U.S. (And given what's gone down in Flint, I'm not sure we should have the utmost confidence in any given municipality to manage their water treatment and supply correctly at all times.) Still, I'm personally hoping not to have to worry more about it--it looks like I may have been wrong about what was bothering my fish recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    What dechlorinator are you using? How do you know your water doesn't have chloramine?
    I'm using Safe, and I've been adding some to the tank these days even with the carbon block filter to mitigate ammonia and nitrite, given that I'm still cycling. I may continue if heavy feeding means the filter has trouble keeping up in between water changes, but otherwise I don't think it would be needed.

    Also, I did check my municipal water report last time I had discus (admittedly, two years ago, and I don't think they had an especially recent one online then), but at that point they reported using only chlorine.

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    Default Re: Who's using HMA/Whole House Filters and Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tshethar View Post
    I'm using Safe, and I've been adding some to the tank these days even with the carbon block filter to mitigate ammonia and nitrite, given that I'm still cycling. I may continue if heavy feeding means the filter has trouble keeping up in between water changes, but otherwise I don't think it would be needed.

    Also, I did check my municipal water report last time I had discus (admittedly, two years ago, and I don't think they had an especially recent one online then), but at that point they reported using only chlorine.
    I would get a low range total chlorine test and test the output water from the RO. I found my RO filter was quite inadequate filtering out chloramine and chlorine. I had to switch to catalytic carbon and add 4 additional carbon stages.

    I also would not take the water company's word for it. The test for chloramine is total chlorine which is a free chlorine test with potassium iodide added. They may not use the word "chloramine" even if they're using it. An ammonia test on your tap water might be elucidating.

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