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Thread: Sick fish needs help :)

  1. #1
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    Default Sick fish needs help :)

    Problem

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

    About 3 weeks ago i over-fed them and his tummy got big

    2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

    Turned almost black, I haven’t seen it eat in 3 weeks but it doesn’t look emaciated, it twitches sometimes, darts across the tank randomly, when it does poop it’s white, it hides and doesn’t join the feeding frenzy like it used to

    3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

    All seachem product: PolyGuard, paraguard, metroplex in water because it’s not eating, no noticeable improvement


    Tank/Water

    4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

    65 gallon - All discus are about 3 inches, 5 of them, and 1 five inch elephant nose and a bristlenose pleco


    5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

    2-3 a week, at least 50%


    6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

    6 months, sand about 1 1/2 inch


    7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

    My water is well water, before coming from faucet it goes through a softener, Uv light and filter. No chemicals added, I have had the water tested a year ago and it’s pure. Does not swing ph, always 7.5

    8. Parameters and water source;

    Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


    - temp 84F

    - ph 7.5

    - ammonia reading 0

    - nitrite reading 0

    - nitrate reading 0

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    - well water 100%

    - municipal water ____

    - RO water ____


    9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

    Yes 1 fish but after the problem started with this guy

    10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

    I feed them frozen brine shrimp once a day. About 1/8 tsp for all the fish in the tank


    11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

    How do I add pics from an iPhone?
    Last edited by FisheyH; 09-09-2018 at 02:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    To add photos click on "go advanced" then on "manage attachments", just bear in mind that files must not be too big so either drop the resolution on your iPhone or use an app to reduce the photo size. Do you happen to have some kind of container that could do as a hospital tank? Something like a 20-30 gal Rubbermaid tub, a heater and an airstone? It is a lot easier treating fish in a separate dedicated tank

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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Thanks I will try to add later on a computer. I suck at technology

    I do have a 10 gallon hospital tank but to date thats been a 100% failure. I think because it’s hard to establish the water in there because it’s not always running. Maybe I am just doing it wrong though

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    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Maybe 100 gallon is a bit small, aim for at least twice as much. No need for a glass tank, a plastic tub will do just fine. Also no need to get it established, just change a lot of water every day (that per se will do the fish some good)

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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Ok great idea! So I need a heater and filter in the hospital tank obviously. Or can I skip the filter and just use a bubbler?

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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Here is the fish. What is wrong with it? How do I treat it? Now another is having that poop too. I need to treat the whole tank. He gets that poop once every 3-4 days or so along with the other symptoms I said above. still not eating. And that poop does not appear to be wiggling or so maybe my brain wants to believe - that better not be contagious to humans not that I drink the water.....

    His tummy looks bulgy too. Though I haven’t seen him eat for over 2 weeks now. Though tonight he was pecking at the bottom and schooling a bit again.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by FisheyH; 09-10-2018 at 01:36 AM.

  7. #7
    Registered Member Swedgin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    A couple things that stand out from the questionnaire that we should look into:

    Symptoms.
    White poop is USUALLY a sign of internal parasite infestation. Someone with more experience than me should chime in soon and suggest the appropriate treatment.

    Tank mates.
    Elephant noses are wild caught, meaning they are likely to have internal parasites (at least), which might have infected your discus in the first place.


    Water parameters.
    If all 3 readings are 0, something might be off. If properly cycled, a tank that size with the current bio load should show some nitrates. What do you use to test these params? Are you testing before or after the water changes?
    What’s the current filtration you want to replace with the fluval canister?

    Food.
    Brine shrimp once daily only is not adequate nutrition for any fish, let alone growing discus. Your fish are likely deficient in vitamins and minerals/trace elements. In my opinion variety is key, the more different foods the better. Brine shrimp and any other frozen food is mostly water, which needs to be taken into account.
    I strongly suggest you get some dry foods like some quality flakes or granules, as well as some freeze dried black worms. You want good protein sources as well as good fatty acids and some sort of fiber.
    Regards,
    Tobi

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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Thanks toby! I will get more food. I have flakes, I will start using them too. I have pellets but they don’t eat them. I will get black worms.

    How do I treat for theoretical worms? Barf - Can I get them?!? Sometimes after I clean the tank I see a couple very tiny worms on the tank glass but then they disappear. I thought that was normal in a tank according to my LFS guy.

    I use the API liquid test kit and I test after my water change... maybe tomorrow then I will check before and see. It’s kind of a dumb test kit. The colours between 0 and say 40 are different shades of yellow so presuming I’m not colour challenged... seems to be 0 but hey maybe it’s the next one up, 20..... I will get my husband to give a second opinion

    If my elephantnose gave it worms then just curious if it’s possible he only gave it to 1 of them (possibly two then after tonight). Worms - yuck!!! Seriously that’s close to scaring me off fish lol l I’m sure it’s a simple thing to treat I just don’t know how so I’m freaking out! But too much invested, must fix it

    Hey how about frozen mysis shrimp? And can these frozen foods cause parasites or bacteria too?

  9. #9
    Registered Member Swedgin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Quote Originally Posted by FisheyH View Post
    Thanks toby! I will get more food. I have flakes, I will start using them too. I have pellets but they don’t eat them. I will get black worms.

    How do I treat for theoretical worms? Barf - Can I get them?!? Sometimes after I clean the tank I see a couple very tiny worms on the tank glass but then they disappear. I thought that was normal in a tank according to my LFS guy.

    I use the API liquid test kit and I test after my water change... maybe tomorrow then I will check before and see. It’s kind of a dumb test kit. The colours between 0 and say 40 are different shades of yellow so presuming I’m not colour challenged... seems to be 0 but hey maybe it’s the next one up, 20..... I will get my husband to give a second opinion

    If my elephantnose gave it worms then just curious if it’s possible he only gave it to 1 of them (possibly two then after tonight). Worms - yuck!!! Seriously that’s close to scaring me off fish lol l I’m sure it’s a simple thing to treat I just don’t know how so I’m freaking out! But too much invested, must fix it

    Hey how about frozen mysis shrimp? And can these frozen foods cause parasites or bacteria too?
    The white worms on your glass sound like planaria. Generally harmless, but mostly appear when water conditions are suboptimal, i. e. incompletely cycled tank, too few water changes etc.

    If you can, get another test kit. I hear JBL is available in the US, which is what I use and would recommend.

    If one has parasites, not necessarily worms, it is likely they all have them, but aren't showing any symptoms (yet). Weakened condition and/or immune system usually gives the parasites the chance to take over.

    Parasites from frozen food, krill, shrimp etc is probably possible, but unlikely. Bacteria on the other hand, quite possible. If the cool chain has been interrupted or the food has been defrosted the wrong way before feeding the bacterial load can be quite high. One of the reasons I prefer dry or very fresh foods to defrosted. You just never know.
    Regards,
    Tobi

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Follow Tobi's advice regarding the food and see if you can get him to eat and keep him going while we can understand properly what is happening. When Tobi said parasites he did not specify it was worms, probably with debilitated fish passing white poop it is likely to be flagellate protozoa. These would not respond to de-wormers but require anti-protozoal medication. As I was mentioning in a hospital tank a filter is not mandatory, you just change most of the water every day, and if you are having to use antibiotics it would be useless as they would kill the good bacteria as well. Anti-parasitic drugs on the other hand would not kill the good bacteria so if in the future you have kept a sponge on the main tank filter intake all you have to do is stick it on a bubbler in the hospital tank and you have a cycled filter pronto.

  11. #11
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Hi FisheyH, based on the picture it looks like hex to me. Since more than one fish is showing symptoms best to treat the whole tank. Also can you remove any live plants and some of the sand as that can make treatment less effective. You use metro to treat hex, pure metro is best. 500mg per 10 gallons (measure with a gram scale) dosed daily after a 50% or better water change. Do this for 12 days. If any fish have swollen bellies add epsom salt (it's a laxative) to help relieve any bloat for 24 hours (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons).

    I like to raise the temp to about 88 if none of the fish have swollen bellies for the duration of the metro treatment and until the fish are eating well.
    Pat
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Ok I will do the metro. I have some under the counter anyhow. I was wondering if it were hex. Can I effectively add it to the water as they are not eating? Will it work?

  13. #13
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Quote Originally Posted by FisheyH View Post
    Ok I will do the metro. I have some under the counter anyhow. I was wondering if it were hex. Can I effectively add it to the water as they are not eating? Will it work?
    Yes, I think most people use it when the fish are not eating.
    Pat
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Is the metro you have under the counter 100% metronidazole? That's what you need. If there is any you could remove the fish to a bare bottom tank? Treatment will be much more effective it you treat in BB. Raising the temp to 90 is a big help as well.

    This is out of my field of expertise but I have read that water softeners don't work well for Discus for some reason that I have forgotten because I don't use one. Someone else here who smarter than I about those things will know.
    Mama Bear

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Sick fish needs help :)

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    This is out of my field of expertise but I have read that water softeners don't work well for Discus for some reason that I have forgotten because I don't use one. Someone else here who smarter than I about those things will know.
    It depends on the softener. Most water softeners use salt (or potassium) to remove hard minerals, which leaves an elevated TDS (salt or potassium) but no real needed buffering minerals. I would look into adding a mineral supplement when using a water softener.

    Also, that fish looks a little bloated to me. I wonder if it's constipation or infection? If constipation, would the white stringy feces be this apparent? If infection, I would lower the temp to 82.

    Brian

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