Discus Fry Help 6 Days Old

[Fishquake]

A high TDS will in effect diminish the ability of the sperm to penetrate the egg and fertilize it, not prevent the developing fry to hatch. Using RO water after they have been fertilized is of no consequence and in fact the mineral deficiency will eventually cause physical abnormalities as the fry develop.

[sanjay21]

A high TDS will in effect diminish the ability of the sperm to penetrate the egg and fertilize it, not prevent the developing fry to hatch. Using RO water after they have been fertilized is of no consequence and in fact the mineral deficiency will eventually cause physical abnormalities as the fry develop.

Disagree on that! I've been having great success not just with one pair but several different pairs. I move the eggs to RO after an hour from the male fertilizing. I leave the eggs in the RO for a good 40hrs and then return the eggs back to the parents or raise them artificially. Either way I move them straight 100% treated tap water before they hatch. I do not have any deformed fish, couple runts buts that's normal.

[Fishquake]

So you disagree with the statement "A high TDS will in effect diminish the ability of the sperm to penetrate the egg and fertilize it"?

[sanjay21]

So you disagree with the statement "A high TDS will in effect diminish the ability of the sperm to penetrate the egg and fertilize it"?

"Using RO water after they have been fertilized is of no consequence and in fact the mineral deficiency will eventually cause physical abnormalities as the fry develop"

I'm reading this line again and I think you meant fry when hatched in RO will have physical abnormalities ? If so - Apologies and yes, highly possible.

I thought you were saying moving the eggs to RO will cause them to do that.

[Filip]

I always thought that high TDS / GH/ KH prevents the osmosis through hardening the egg membrane and preventing fry getting enough Oxygen and minerals through the egg membrane .
I have never read that it can actually prevent the fertilization process it self. Are you sure about this Bill ?
Do you have any link or personal experience to share on this subject ?

[LizStreithorst]

I often add the Roobios or RO after the eggs are fertilized and get a normal hatch rate. I have heard the thing that the eggs are too hard for the sperm to penetrate. It's something that is wrong but continues to be passed along as fact.

[Filip]

I often add the Roobios or RO after the eggs are fertilized and get a normal hatch rate. I have heard the thing that the eggs are too hard for the sperm to penetrate. It's something that is wrong but continues to be passed along as fact.

I was hoping for that answer Liz . Thanks for clarifying.

[danotaylor]

I have bred many species of fish over the last 35 years in this stellar hobby, but never discus. It does seem odd to me that the TDS could affect sperm penetration of a newly laid egg. Unless the TDS somehow affected the eggs development before it is laid, I would think it would have little effect if the male is passing immediately over it as it is deposited. After it has been fertilized I could see how a high TDS could affect the egg potentially making the hatch more of a challenge for the wiggler, but like I said, I am no expert and have no experience with breeding discus.

[Fishquake]

I always thought that high TDS / GH/ KH prevents the osmosis through hardening the egg membrane and preventing fry getting enough Oxygen and minerals through the egg membrane .
I have never read that it can actually prevent the fertilization process it self. Are you sure about this Bill ?
Do you have any link or personal experience to share on this subject ?

http://www.discusnada.org/breeding-discus/

Water requirements (part 1)

While domestic discus will live in and thrive in a variety of water (providing it’s clean and stable), breeding does require some special conditions. Of major concern is the water “softness”. Discus can seldom breed successfully in “hard” water. With the possible exception of wilds, Ph on the other hand is not as much of a concern (although we will initially monitor it), just so long as the water is soft (low on calcium content). While some of us are blessed with water naturally soft at the tap, most of us will need to purchase an RO system, and a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. Feel free to try for a go or two with your tap water (I recommend at least a TDS meter to test your tap) but chances are you are going to need an RO system. The reason why is that hard water tends to interact with the outer surface of the discus egg, causing it to calcify, and then the embryo will suffocate. In extreme cases it has even been reported that hard water will prevent the eggs from becoming fertilized. Test your tap water with a TDS meter, and chances are that if your TDS is above 100, you are going to need RO water. For a good explanation of how to set up an RO unit, and how it functions, as well as the TDS meter see this article here:

For More Information on RO Units, Click Here!

Water requirements (part 2)

So now that our RO unit is up and functioning, we want to soften our tank water so the pair can be successful. I found 80 ppm TDS to be a good starting point. After preheating our storage container of RO water to 82 degrees, we want to measure its TDS. If our unit is functioning properly the TDS should be in the 8-20 ppm range. We then want to buffer this water. We can do this quite simply by adding back just enough of the RO waste water back into the RO water to bring our TDS back up to 80 ppm, or we can add one of the commercially available buffering products available such as Kent RO Right. Either will work, but I find the latter a bit of a waste of money myself. We will also make a point to monitor Ph, until we learn our water. What we want to guard against is a PH crash. This occurs when the buffering capability of the water gets so low, that the minerals that impact Ph are quickly depleted, causing the Ph to nose dive. Discus can adjust to quite well to a range of Ph’s but they will not tolerate a crash. Typically this will not happen until the TDS level gets below 30- 40 ppm, but due to the fact everyone’s water supply is different, it is important to monitor until you are comfortable this will not happen.

If, after a try or two at a TDS of 80 ppm, we find we are still having trouble getting a hatch, or our hatch rate is unsatisfactory, we will try again by lowering the TDS to 60, then 40 if necessary, always remember to monitor Ph each time you drop your TDS, until you are comfortable you will not experience a Ph crash.

If we get as low as 35-40 and we still have no hatch, chances are that we either have two females in the breeding tank, or the male is not doing his job (making runs), is infertile, or is just too young.

[LizStreithorst]

IME what he said is untrue. He also gets a lot wrong about minerals. Calcium is not a problem unless it's calcium carbonate. Calcium phosphate is not a problem at all. In fact it is used to re-mineralze RO water.

Don't believe everything you read until you have checked it out yourself.

[Fishquake]

This information was for you not for me.