Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

[Tshethar]

Oh no Bill, I wouldn't think a couple of degrees would matter. How did you present the BH? So sorry about this!
Pat

Thanks, Pat. Head-scratching I'm afraid. The slight temp difference between the calibration of heaters in my barrel vs. the tank (both on controllers) shouldn't explain it, and I also don't think the food caused an issue, either. (I dropped in a freeze-dried cube, and later broke it up some with my fingers, but they didn't really go after it too much, just picked a little, so I removed in the morning. They had other food during the day.) Figured I would try again with a grater or something like you use, but wasn't too worried about it.

All I can say is that I really let them flop on the bottom with virtually no water, though of course we see experienced people doing similarly with their fish pretty regularly here (though usually adults). I don't know, maybe he hit his head on the glass... don't really think he had much time to get cold, as the water returned quickly. Those would be my best guesses, besides just a big stress response. Sometimes he really stuffed himself with FDBW but he wasn't full or bloated, just a little patchy in coloration when I found him, which is probably because he expired early in the night.

[Tshethar]

Sorry to hear that Bill

I agree with Pat, it may not be the change in temperature. Probably something else .. maybe bloat ? or choked on the beefheart ? Either way sorry to hear that. Beefheart you are feeding, is it finely minced ?

Thanks, Sanjay. Appreciate it. I guess choking is a possibility I hadn't considered; not sure what that would look like, but I don't think so, as they didn't eat too much (just picked) and this was more than 12 hours after it was removed. There were FDBW in the tank when he started looking bad so if he had a problem with anything it was them, but he never seemed to struggle to break them up, and hadn't totally gorged himself (as usual) before he went down.

You guys are great to commiserate, by the way. If I didn't have tank space issues already I'd start angling on how to get y'all to send me fish! (Though I'm not sure that would be in their best interests! )

[Mando]

My 2" alanquer recently had a bloat issue and it's because he is a vacuum cleaner! I immediately added 1tbl of Epsom per 10 gallon and he discharged it by nightfall. That's why I'm afraid of feeding to the point of the round bellies i'm seeing in the grow out challenges. However, I did reduce the portion amount, but increased the frequency of feedings throughout the day.

[Second Hand Pat]

Bill, my only thought is maybe the FDBWs had not totally absorbed water and once inside the it sucked some of the moisture out of the fish. Al cautioned us about that. When I press the FDBWs halves against the glass I press out all the air I can. I would think the fish are too big for that but I do not really know.
Pat

[modealings]

Bummer, Bill. In remembering back to your struggles a few years ago with your group then I just cant help but think there is something odd in your water. But I know you have another tank that's doing well so it's hard to pinpoint...

[Tshethar]

Oops... tried to write a post earlier but didn't send and closed my browser... anyway, I'll try again...

My 2" alanquer recently had a bloat issue and it's because he is a vacuum cleaner! I immediately added 1tbl of Epsom per 10 gallon and he discharged it by nightfall. That's why I'm afraid of feeding to the point of the round bellies i'm seeing in the grow out challenges. However, I did reduce the portion amount, but increased the frequency of feedings throughout the day.

Makes sense to err on the side of caution it seems to me. I did lose one to a dried pellet a couple of weeks ago when I didn't have the Epsom salt in the house, and he went down within about 8 hours or so. Smaller and more frequent feeding seems like a good plan, and I admit to going a little off script and letting them gorge themselves on the FDBW once they were big enough to eat them. (Seemed to have been getting away with that with no adverse effects.) Sanjay reported in his thread that he's had some fry start choking on beefheart at a small size before, too, so I can see why one has to take care during this phase.

Bill, my only thought is maybe the FDBWs had not totally absorbed water and once inside the it sucked some of the moisture out of the fish. Al cautioned us about that. When I press the FDBWs halves against the glass I press out all the air I can. I would think the fish are too big for that but I do not really know.
Pat

That's an interesting thought, Pat. I wonder if there could be something of a cumulative effect. I usually press a fair amount of the air out of the cube, though admittedly so that it will stick better more than for any other reason. That fish hasn't struggled to eat the worms for the last couple of weeks, but he's also usually the first to line up for food so it's possible a dry worm could have added to his troubles... hard for me to think that was the prime cause, though. But it could have made things worse if he was already on the ropes.

Bummer, Bill. In remembering back to your struggles a few years ago with your group then I just cant help but think there is something odd in your water. But I know you have another tank that's doing well so it's hard to pinpoint...

Thanks, Eric. Hard not to go with this answer, especially in the absence of other really compelling ideas. This was the first time I added water and then Safe, rather than the other way around... though really, a few seconds or two there shouldn't matter. But there's no doubt my water has produced some bad results at different points, starting two years ago. Could be there was a bit more chlorine in it yesterday. I've had the tanks react a bit badly sometimes on different days, and sometimes due to different percentages of water changes, too. Think I've learned not to do 100% if I have a choice.

Lately I've been meaning to take a photo of my sediment prefilter. I've been running about 60 gallons per day through this for about six weeks and even at 10 microns it's pulling out a lot of stuff, either clay or iron or both. Here it is:

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Easy to blame everything on my water (maybe too conveniently so), but it's definitely given me some cause for suspicion.

[Tshethar]

Hey all,

Thought I'd check in with a status report. Truth be told my remaining 3 fish (!) haven't looked that good over the last week, which makes it less exciting and fun to report on them (of course). This is the time in the process when it would be easy to start neglecting maintenance a little (or a lot), as the whole enterprise is looking pretty questionable when it comes to producing good results.

Since I am not the type of person that does everything each day on a set timetable, I can appreciate the benefits of doing so. It removes the question of whether you "feel like" doing something or not... truth is, water changes can lose their luster, right? (I'll definitely be looking for some automation if I can ever have a fishroom!)

At this particular time, I'm really glad the WCs are as easy to do as they are, and that I have become as habituated as I have. A couple of times I haven't done 2x/day, but that's maybe 2 days in 10 when I had some sort of event or activity that kept me out of the house until day's end. Tank has gotten at least one big water change every day without fail.

Still, I think maybe I haven't appreciated how much particulate matter from the FDBW in particular was accumulating in the sponge filter, so that I should have been squeezing it in a bucket a little more often. I usually use my siphon to suck whatever I can off the surface of the small sponge(s), and do occasional wipedowns, but I've been battling a little bit of what I think is a bacterial issue that shows up on the fins of the fish. They've been a little darkened over the last week as well.

Haven't worried about it much or done anything differently; seems like the kind of thing their immune systems take care of with clean water, but it's been one more sign that things aren't quite perfect here in my corner of the contest. Dropped the temp a week ago a degree from 83-84 to 82-83...been holding off on kanamycin... could try a little salt... but I think the main thing may be to keep the sponge a little cleaner and keep up with the wipedowns.

Anyway, they're growing and doing alright. Think I'll go do my water change...

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[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Bill, glad to see you (and the fish) are holding in the there. I hear you on the water changes. I have missed a couple due to other activities in my life. The fish look good but bump your feedings up a little and get those foreheads to fill out a bit.
Pat

[Tshethar]

Thanks, Pat. Still feeding 'em, still changing their water... seems like they are doing pretty well. Definitely eating....

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[Willie]

Nice going, Bill. Stick in there!

Willie

[Tshethar]

Nice going, Bill. Stick in there!

Willie

Thanks, Willie. Staying with it! Still a chance to have a few nice adults.

So far they haven't really taken to the dried beefheart, but they're eating well enough and growing. And I try not to look at Bryan's fish too much! (just kidding!)

[Second Hand Pat]

Bill, try to soak the BH prior to feeding.
Pat

[Tshethar]

Bill, try to soak the BH prior to feeding.
Pat

Thanks, Pat. Broke it apart today beforehand; will try soaking it as well. May just take them a little time to adjust to a new food. I thought they'd go nuts for it, but I suppose these guys are known for their, ah, discerning palates... We'll see how it goes and report back. At least they're happy with several other good foods.

[sanjay21]

Bill once they start tasting the worms a few times they will be going crazy for them

Keep it going good luck !

[Tshethar]

Bill once they start tasting the worms a few times they will be going crazy for them

Keep it going good luck !

Thanks, Sanjay. Nice going with yours.

The worms have been a favorite of theirs from early on... it's the one food I can count on them to really pack away and in short order.

The freeze-dried beefheart is another story. Not so interested. They're okay on the flakes, though, and will accept some pellets, so I'm not going to do too much other than change water and hopefully move them before too long.