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Thread: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

  1. #181
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    The journey continues... no real news to report. May have the option to move these guys into a 40 sometime in the next few weeks, but for now on auto-pilot. Doing 1x 95% WC/day and feeding about 4x. I may be overfeeding a little from the look of their shape, I dunno. Just going to wait and see how it goes from here. At least no health issues or problems to report. Color is appearing more noticeable in general, and I'll have a new light for the tank showing up in the mail soon. Happy Holidays and will plan to measure soon!

    --Bill

    2018-12-20 09.16.23.jpg
    2018-12-20 09.17.53.jpg

  2. #182
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Hi Bill, I am really glad you decided to hang in with these guys. They are looking better. I am most curious to see how they develop as they continue to grow.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  3. #183
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Thanks, Pat. I'm still enjoying them. Hopeful they'll keep looking good in the months to come.

    Not sure how great it is for the forum, but kind of nice that we've been in a slow news cycle... guess we'll have to manufacture some click bait!

  4. #184
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Afraid I spoke too soon on the slow news cycle...

    ...and I'm now going to have to bow out of the contest, I'm sorry to say. I'll continue watching how the other contestants do and hoping others achieve good results.

    Disappointing and frustrating day. "Discus keeping--good for helping people get in touch with their anger." Might have to make that my tag line.

    Anyway, here's what happened: I had some free time and decided to install a whole bunch of equipment I have either had on hand for a while or just received. The main thing was an HMF kit from Swiss Tropicals for a 40 breeder, which I finally decided to put on my blue-eyed bristlenose tank. Anyway, I was doing a lot of work in my small fish area--water change, glass cleaning, installing a new air pump and reworking my existing hoses and valves among three tanks, cutting the foam for jetlifters, and installing new lighting. All went great.

    Then I put a new light on the juvie discus. When I went to plug it in, I saw my snakeskin laying on the floor under the tank. He had jumped at some point while I was moving around, I didn't hear or see him, and it had evidently been early in the work process... There is a gap near the back where I installed the breeder box HOB, and he evidently found it. Tried getting him back in the tank, moving him around, etc. but to no avail. He was long gone. Decided to measure him--he came in at about 2.5 inches.

    I'll keep my two runt turqs but I don't think there's a need to post any more pics or to continue narrating here. Hopefully I can mix them with my adult fish at some point; I'll keep them where they are for now and I guess we'll see.

    Thanks for following along and hope some of what's in this thread might be of help to someone at some point. Not a happy camper today, but I do feel like I went down swinging, so to speak, and if I ever have spawning discus I'll have a better idea what's involved in raising them. Good luck to everyone else with your fish!

  5. #185
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Sorry for your frustrations Bill! Thanks for being a part of the challenge!!!

  6. #186
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Sorry to hear this Bill, you really gave it the good, old college try. I do know how you feel. I was in your shoes in the 2012 growout contest. Hugs!
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  7. #187
    Registered Member RickMay1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    The contest is definitely "hard mode" but incredibly educational. I got some of Al's fish from a later spawn at the same size and it kicked my arse for sure. I felt like Jon Snow...."I knew nothing". Thanks for giving it a go, I'm sure like me you learned a lot.

  8. #188
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Thanks, all! I appreciate all the sentiments. I have learned a lot and I'm glad I took the challenge. Obviously it's no fun when things go south, and some of us have trouble accepting the fact that a certain amount of "failure" is part of the learning process.

    Funny, but I think the whole business has the potential to give me as much insight into my own personality as it does discus-raising... usually when advising other people (i.e., college students), I'm "process-oriented" rather than "outcome-based." You know, get into good habits, make good effort, make thoughtful decisions, try new things, learn about yourself, adapt, gain new skills, think about who you want to become and all that. Usually results follow naturally, but not always, or at least not immediately.

    But it turns out it's hard to take my own medicine!

    Turns out raising discus is tough, even when you try to follow the general prescription and stay consistent. But I'm happy with my effort and approach, and I think I have some ideas that will help me do better next time. And it's hard to imagine there won't be a next time.

    Meanwhile, I'll be appreciating with greater depth what experienced people are doing. It's impressive!

  9. #189
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Good post Bill, what do you feel is the difference between "process-oriented" and "outcome-based"?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  10. #190
    Registered Member sanjay21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    So sorry to hear this Bill! I was just going over your post. It’s a difficult moment when you see a fish jump of out of the tank dead.

  11. #191
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Hi again SD folks,

    Well, as most of you know I joined with enthusiasm at the start of the contest but dropped out late in December when I got down to 2 discus from the original 10 that Al sent. I was obviously disappointed not to have at least kept most of them alive (!), but as most already know, when things go awry it's not too hard to lose them. They're both tough and fragile at the same time.

    A few things I might have learned in hindsight, that might influence future efforts:

    1. Really clean water seems like the first priority. The biggest problems came for me with sudden losses of multiple fish within about 12 hours of big water changes. In my case, I don't think it was the high volume that mattered, as many times I changed close to 100% with no problem, and I was aging, aerating, and temp-matching. Rather, my water supply has occasionally been suspect. (I just noticed with my adults that as soon as I disconnected my sediment pre-filter and carbon block the other day, they let me know; for the two days they went with straight aged tap water, they didn't want to eat after water changes. I dunno, maybe they're "spoiled," but they've shown me they can feel a difference. And once before they were seriously in distress after a water change, right after I lost several of the little guys, as I noted in the fall; I added carbon quickly on that occasion which may have saved them.) I'm not sure if I had a chloramine problem or some other toxin in the water, but the little guys went down pretty fast on two occasions, so being careful with my water is my #1 concern.

    2. I would get them out of the 10 and into a tank with a bigger footprint earlier, and would add an extra airstone for gas exchange. Might have helped a bit with growth.

    3. I'd feed them more BBS in the first couple of weeks--would need a second or a different hatchery from what I was using to accomplish that.

    4. Otherwise, I'm not sure it mattered all that much what I was feeding. (Though I introduced a dry pellet that was too large one time and lost a fish to bloat.) Ultimately it's tempting to feed more than necessary, but having them in clean water as much as possible seems more likely to help with growth more than perpetual access to food, especially after the BBS stage.

    5. I'll make sure the tank lid is tight all around, and stays that way over time with changes to equipment and such. Discus will jump.

    Anyway, there's some food for thought. All in all the contest was a good opportunity for me to learn and I'm glad I was in it. And today I really came on here to share positive news, which is that the 2 smallest, runtiest fish that were still alive back at the end of December soon found themselves joining my group of young adults in a 40 breeder. About 6-7 weeks later, they're still really small, but they've been well-integrated with no issues into what is now a group of 8 discus, which moved a week ago into the dining room. So, here are some shots of the contest fish with their new friends... if nothing else, they're playing a role in the social lives of my main group, and they've been doing fine and look as though they will live on into adulthood (and hopefully keep growing).

    2019-02-16 21.47.03.jpg
    2019-02-16 21.47.20.jpg
    2019-02-16 21.47.25.jpg
    2019-02-16 21.47.53.jpg
    2019-02-16 21.48.31.jpg
    2019-02-16 21.48.32.jpg

  12. #192
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Good one Bill. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences mate. They look happy that they're in with the big kids now
    Last edited by danotaylor; 02-17-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  13. #193
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Bill,
    Im sorry it did not work out but glad you tried and shared your info along the way.If I do this contest again I hope you consider trying again and using what you learned here.

    Al
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    Al Sabetta
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  14. #194
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by danotaylor View Post
    Good one Bill. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences mate. They look happy that they're in with the big kids now
    Thanks, Daniel. I didn't know how things would go when I put them in with the "big kids," and they were nervous at first, but things really did go well. They've basically been ignored as far as aggression is concerned, while also taking pressure off the fish that previously was at the bottom of the pecking order. They defer to the big ones at feeding time, but they get their share and no one bothers them. And once I moved them, the whole group has really been sticking together in the larger tank, and I think they all feel happy about each other's presence. So, they're runts, but I'm glad I have them!

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Bill,
    Im sorry it did not work out but glad you tried and shared your info along the way.If I do this contest again I hope you consider trying again and using what you learned here.

    Al
    Thanks, Al. There were some downers along the way but in some sense I feel like things did actually work out okay, even though the two fish that made it weren't the ones I would have chosen from the group. I feel like the experience is definitely going to help me in the future. I'm really too busy with life to have any ambitious plans at the moment, but my fish could have other ideas (and start my education about breeding), so I hope (and imagine) sooner or later I'll have some opportunities to put some of what I've learned to good use. And if there is another contest, I'm sure I'll be tempted to try again!

    Thanks for sponsoring this one.

  15. #195
    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill's Grow Out Challenge Thread 2018

    Bill you are a great storyteller. Having read your thread from when you started, I really appreciate you sharing your insights with us who wouldn’t even attempt such a challenge. Thanks for the update and the pics of your blended family. So cute! I know I learned a lot from you.
    Patty
    If the discus are happy, I’m happy

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