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Thread: Is discus plague real?

  1. #1
    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Unhappy Is discus plague real?

    I joined here in 2009. Learned all I know here. There have always been knowledgeable folks around, especially Al, do help with discus health. I heard about discus plague somewhere early on, but have never seen it, or had it diagnosed here. Problems are usually traced to something else. Is it an old excuse myth, or does it exist? Has anyone identified it as an organism? I do think i recall Dr. Stephen Smith mentioning it in his 2016 NADA presentation. I recently visited a vendor who thought their discus had "the plague." I saw the usual problems.

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    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    I've never seen it specifically identified. It seems more of a generic term used to explain what cannot be explained

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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


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    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    It is most certainly a real thing. It's a herpes virus. A the Koi people have delt with it. They had the money to have it investigated and diagnosed.

    The reason the symptoms all seem to be the usual suspects such as hex, worms and velvet is because the fishes immune systems are so busy fighting off the virus that they become susceptible to the other pathogens that always exist in fish water.

    The Angelfish people went through this years ago. It killed off almost all the Angels in the country. Of the ones that did survive were almost all sterile.

    I know of only one other person on the forum who have been through Plague. Most folks give up on Discus after all their fish die one after one.
    Mama Bear

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    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    This

    Quote Originally Posted by pcsb23 View Post
    Personally I think it is a myth

    ime I have NEVER seen a case that could not be explained as bacterial (usual), viral (rare as rocking horse poo) or parsites (common).

    Very much think it's a case of "oh my discus have gone black and they are dieing - must be the plague" yeah right!

    But that is just my opinion ......

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    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    It is most certainly a real thing. It's a herpes virus. A the Koi people have delt with it. They had the money to have it investigated and diagnosed..
    That is a better explanation than I have ever seen

  7. #7
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    Paul posted that years ago, before the pathogen was identified as a herpes virus.
    Mama Bear

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    Whatever it is I've learn through my discus keeping years that it's "as rare as a rocking horse poo " as Paul said in his comment .

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    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    Yet to be convinced it is a herpesvirus, let alone the same that affects carp, as these viruses are species specific so unlikely to affect fish belonging to a different family. These are the two herpesvirus known to affect fish: Ictalurid herpesvirus 1 (channel catfish virus) and Cyprinid herpesvirus 3 (koi herpesvirus). Possibly there is also a herpesvirus that affects salmon
    Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 10-09-2018 at 12:23 PM.

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    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    I don't doubt that what Liz says is true. However, I see the term used very loosely to describe what has not been diagnosed.

  11. #11
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    My information comes from a veterinarian who studies this at the University of Florida. He spoke at NADA 2014.
    Mama Bear

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    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    Can you remember his name by any chance? Still can't find anything actually published about it

  13. #13
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    I can't but I have friends who were there. I'll ask them and see if they can remember.
    Mama Bear

  14. #14
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    No worries, should be Dr Tom Waltzek. Having said this though 4 years down the line there appears to be very little in the way of further proof. Still can't find anything published, just references that he isolated herpesvirus in some affected fish and that these can cause immunodepression to the point of allowing other pathogens to gain the upper hand. If this is the sum total of what we know, to me it seems one more intance of a common issue in ornamental fish medicine: we have few hard facts upon which we build a lot of speculation. To say that a pathogen is responsible of a certain disease isolating that pathogen from a diseased animal is not proof of causality, you have to be able to reproduce the infection in an experimental model, a transmission study. And even then it may explain some cases but not all, as unfortunately very sick fish display similar and non specific symptoms. I had not caught the "fishkeeping bug" when the original Angelfish AIDS was about but it seems that like this more modern Discus Plague, viruses were also blamed but demonstrated only in a minority of cases. I would think it was more likely for a virus to jump from one species to another within the same genus or maybe family of fish rather than between species that are totally unrelated
    Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 10-09-2018 at 02:10 PM.

  15. #15
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is discus plague real?

    What he said is that to do those trials required money. The Koi people had the money, the Discus people do not. Still, you can send a sick fish to them and they will test to see if the virus is present.

    As an aside, I got this disease from some fish from Asia. When it was going hot and heavy even my Angles were affected. The difference was that the Angles had a degree of immunity and recovered with treatment. Immunity must have been passes down through all the generations since the original Angles were almost wiped out by the disease. I don't understand how that can be because fish don't have colostrum. If you have a clue, please enlighten me.
    Mama Bear

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