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Thread: My Sump is looking empty !!

  1. #1
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    Default My Sump is looking empty !!

    Hey guys,

    I have a sump on my aquarium 180 Gallon or so, I have a filter sock and about 12 liters of jbl micromec and cintomec. That leaves 1 and 3/4 sections free.

    I have a uv filter, purigen reactor aquaponics pothos growing out in the sump and an algea scrubber.

    Any other usefull pieces of equipment or media I could add to make the system better or more stable.

    Mick

  2. #2
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    I'd consider getting some Biohome Ultra. I got some Ultra Mini in one of my other filters, once the fiscus are fully grown and I start reducing the water changes I'll start swapping the current media (ceramic rings and alfagrog) for some of the big biohome

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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    How have you found it ? It’s one of the media I’ve been looking at but I’m suspicious of anything sold that hard but I do like pondguru channel.
    Does it sort nitrate as it says in the adds ??

    Mick

  4. #4
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    As mentioned I got some a few years ago for my 250 liter community tank, mainly just to give it a try. Just got enough to fill one of the 4 big trays in the Jebao 304. I would say it is good quality media. Difficult to judge how effective it is at removing nitrates, as I have nothing to compare it to and also have a lot of plants in the tank. Probably for another year or so I will continue to do daily water changes in my discus tank so nitrates are not a concern. After then I will gradually scale back to maybe twice a week. I will then give it a few weeks to see where the nitrates are then start swapping the media. Apparently it takes 5-6 months for the de-nitrifying bacteria to get established. I should then be able to compare the readings with the old media to the ones with the Biohome. A Brit I follow on youtube has been trying them out on his discus tank and has done a resonably thorough year long trial, initially he had no skin in the game but now he is starting to sell Biohome so his impartiality may be a bit questionable. Might ask the chap how much he charges, internatiinal shipping from the Pondguru was quite steep
    https://youtu.be/o-X-zsx8LkM
    Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 10-21-2018 at 01:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Registered Member slicksta's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    I'd keep it as simple as possible. The more complicated, the more work and the more that can go wrong.
    I've tried most of the options and now all I have in my sumps is some floss, reticulated sponge and bio_balls and my fish and I have never been happier.

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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    I do not think it possible to get anaerobic bacteria to grow in the same filter as aerobic as the conditions for a colony are so drastically different.
    The person in the video seems nice enough and mentions several times that his analysis is not done scientifically and in that I fully agree.
    And in my opinion the use of a planted tank in the experiment nullifies any conclusion.
    Quite a few years back I experimented with an anaerobic reactor filter and it took about 6 months to get bacteria to develop and remove nitrate from the water. Problem is that the flow rate needs to be so slow that it is not practical. And at that flow rate you would probably need a filter twice the size of your tank to be useful in any way. Also keep in mind that the introduction of any oxygen into the filter will have you starting from scratch again.

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    I would fill it up with bio media (rings , bioballs) etc.
    More bio media can never hurt and keeps the system more stable .

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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    I'm a big fan of pond matrix and poret foam.

    I gotta disagree with slicksta with respect to aerobic vs. anaerobic bacteria not being able to exist in the same filter though how effective the denitrifying bacteria are I can't say.

    Biofilms are a wonderful thing so I'd try and find a media that doesn't need to be clean or is self cleaning. With horizontal flow through my poret foam sump, the pump side ends up being filled with a fine mulm which I remove each water change. I have 9" total thickness of poret foam and haven't cleaned it in over 6 months with no visible drop in water level across the foam.

  9. #9
    Registered Member slicksta's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    I'm a big fan of pond matrix and poret foam.

    I gotta disagree with slicksta with respect to aerobic vs. anaerobic bacteria not being able to exist in the same filter though how effective the denitrifying bacteria are I can't say.

    Biofilms are a wonderful thing so I'd try and find a media that doesn't need to be clean or is self cleaning. With horizontal flow through my poret foam sump, the pump side ends up being filled with a fine mulm which I remove each water change. I have 9" total thickness of poret foam and haven't cleaned it in over 6 months with no visible drop in water level across the foam.
    Well unless the aerobic bacteria are wearing spacesuits I don't see how.
    And by chance if there is a micro colony of anaerobic bacteria in the center of some so called miracle media, I can pretty much guarantee that the water flows past them is so minute that there effectiveness is 0%

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    Registered Member Cove Beach's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    I also have a 180 gal sump running horizontal. First chamber contains 100micron sock, a large air stone, PH probe and temp probe and 9" of Poret foam. My center chamber houses a Purigen reactor and Ehiem pump for same, another air stone and a sponge filter for any hospital tank duties, and another 3"of Poret Foam. Last chamber is home to 4 heaters and my Tunze Osmolator and a big bulkhead for my Reeflo return pump. I get very little detritus in the sump due to the sock on the input. The Poret is remaining very clean also. The Purigen is a new addition that is sucking up all the tannins from my driftwood in the display and giving the display the clarity i am looking for. The compartments are divided by partitions that are perforated with 1 1/4" holes to promote the horizontal flow except for the last one which is solid and sets and maintains water level for the heaters during water changes. I had a 220 gal full reef with all the bells and whistles for 15 yrs and i am not in a hurry to create that kind of complexity with this tank. I have ten 5"-6.5" fish in the display with 3 pairs laying eggs, often two at a time. My guess is what i have in the sump is working.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    Quote Originally Posted by slicksta View Post
    Well unless the aerobic bacteria are wearing spacesuits I don't see how.
    And by chance if there is a micro colony of anaerobic bacteria in the center of some so called miracle media, I can pretty much guarantee that the water flows past them is so minute that there effectiveness is 0%
    It is a microscopic version of the anaerobic filter reactor you made. Did you rigorously deoxygenate the water before it entered your filter? I don't know the design but I think it is likely that in the flow path aerobic bacteria use the available oxygen then once the oxygen is consumed the anaerobic bacteria grow. The same thing happens inside porous media especially in media that facilitate the formation of biofilms. You can get anaerobic bacterial infections in lungs by virtue of complex biofilms.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    Just through personal observation, I have noticed a drop in nitrates using the Biohome ultra, BUT it does require a substantial amount before you start noticing a change in the nitrate levels...and a good amount of time of course.

  13. #13
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    Also I believe the de-nitrifying bacteria are FACULTATIVE anaerobes, so they would not die or transform into resistance forms (spores) if they came into contact with a bit more oxygen but simply switch metabolic pathway
    Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 10-24-2018 at 07:20 AM.

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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    Thanks for all the reply's guys,

    Thats great info and help.
    I've ordered 2 kgs of the biohome that youtuber you suggested Paul, Cheaper than pondguru and no postal costs so worked out great. So thats a great start.

    I Have added Poret foam to the sump as well.

    I'm adding a clarisea sk-500 so hopefully the poret wont get to messed with food and particulate matter.

    I have a 40 watt d-d uv filter with it own 2000 watt pump feeding it, this is the exact flow the unit is rated for so should work at peak performance.

    The purigen is in a reactor and working away happily.

    Hopefully this will be sufficient along with my auto-water change system.

    Seriously thanks for the useful discussion here ! the amount of useful information by everyone who participates in these threads make the hobby accessible to all who are up for a bit of reading. So much of the great info comes from the disagreements in the technical info and actual personal experiences in the of actual keepers rather than the advertising of sellers looking to make a profit. (which is great too because without them we would not have the equipment or the fish)

    Anyway heres to the future and my fish arriving

    Mick

  15. #15
    Homesteader Paul Sabucchi's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Sump is looking empty !!

    Cool, which Biohome did you order in the end?

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