Fin rot?? Please help

[Jmwoitallq]

Hey... I have had my discus for about 9 months, and recently I have been having an issue... I have lost 2 discus to what I think is20181030_110946.jpg20181030_110926.jpg20181030_110905.jpg a fin rot of some sort, and have been noticing signs of it on other discus. I do 40% water changes everyday, but cant seem to kick it... Anyone have any suggestions? I have tried the melafix and pimafix, did not do anything, and i am dosing maracyn 2 currently... I currently have 7 discus, an albino bristle-nose pleco, and a German ram in the tank, will be moving them into a 150 gallon in 2 months, currently in a 30 gallon(I know it is small for the fish, but it was a temporary "grow out" tank)20181030_110946.jpg20181030_110926.jpg20181030_110905.jpg. I have made no changes recently, the problem seems to have come out of nowhere. Any suggestions are GREATLY appreciated!!!

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi again, please fill the form, it will save valuable time

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____

- ph _____

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.



11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

Anyway going by the photos, if your discus have been in your tank for 9 months, they appear not in very good shape, they seem thin and stunted. The large gravel you have in the tank may be contributing to the problem as it will trap a lot of waste that will tend to foul the water

[Jmwoitallq]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Fins seem to be getting damage... not sure why or how?? NO changes, came out of nowhere...


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Just the fins looking damaged... discus are acting fine... lost 2 fish to similar symptoms.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
tried melafix and pimafix, no change now trying maracyn two. using recommended dosage


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

30 gallon, 7 discus, 1 bristlenose pleco, and 1 german ram


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

40% change everyday


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

9 months running gravel bottom varies 1" - 2" deep

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

no aging and no significant ph swing


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____83.3

- ph _____ 8.0

- ammonia reading ____0ppm

- nitrite reading ____0ppm

- nitrate reading ____0ppm-5ppm(using api water test kit... lighter(below) 5.0ppm, but darker then 0ppm

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____ I use well water

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

no

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
mix of freeze dried brine shrimp, freeze dried blood worms, kelp flakes, and seachem discus mix fed 3 times a day... very small amount makes it to the bottom.


11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Jmwoitallq]

Also, discus are 5 months old, and range between 3" and 4"

[Paul Sabucchi]

For starters I would suggest removing as much of the gravel as possible, you could put the plants in pots with a little substrate, also I would up the water changes. Let's see what others recommend

[LizStreithorst]

I agree with Paul. The gravel can trap food particles even if little falls to the bottom. Also, that is a large number of fish for that size tank. I would either move them to the larger tank and keep it BB with maybe some plants in pots or up your water changes to 80% daily or 50% twice daily.

[fljones3]

I know that even though you stated that your feeding is such that little gets to the gravel, you might be amazed what does make it. This is in addition to the discus poop. All of this adds to the potential of the bacteria in the gravel becoming an issue. I had about an inch of gravel (more fine than yours) and made the hard decision to remove it. If you do, please remove your fish as the gravel probably will release gases that will damage (kill) your fish. As others have mentioned, you can put plants in pots which help with cleanup. Seven fish in 30 gallons is a lot of bioload even in light of your WC. Others might contribute, but I think your feedings might even need to be more frequent for 3-4 inch discus.

[Jmwoitallq]

Not sure if this makes any difference... When I do water changes, I use a gravel vac and siphon the gravel as well...

[Jmwoitallq]

Otherwise, could I do sand instead of gravel?

[fljones3]

Not sure if this makes any difference... When I do water changes, I use a gravel vac and siphon the gravel as well...

I did the gravel deeply also, every other day minimum. Still had a lot of junk. After a lot of reading on this site, I felt like my gravel was a ticking time bomb. I went bare bottomed and am very happy I did. When my fish get to be adults I might go with an inch or less of sand. My fish are thriving. Water is clean. So I am happy.

3-4 inch fish need a lot of food and a lot of clean water. Take the time to read the stickies on the beginners forum. Even if you keep the gravel, you will profit. Have you watched Al’s video?

[dagray]

One trick with thick gravel is to not do a complete vacuum every time. Vacuum 1/4-1/2 so that any gasses trapped in the substrate (ammonia for one from uneaten food and plant matter decaying) don't ruin your water quality. I have thick gravel, and have had discus grow as big as seven inches in that planted tank. I will have discus again, and in the process of saving money for them.

If you do three water changes in five days then vacuum 1/3 of the gravel thoroughly each time.

[Jmwoitallq]

Would this help me see results that the fish are getting better? I can and will switch to sand if that would help get rid of the damaged find. But if I can get away with keeping gravel and cleaning it like this, I would do that. My main concern is that get the fish looking healthy again. Also, should I stop dosing the maracyn two?

[Jmwoitallq]

Just a quick update. I have stopped dosing the tank with maracyn two, and have started with 80% water changes. I will continue the larger water changes and on Sunday, I plan to take the gravel out and switch to a thin layer of sand on the bottom. How long after that should I expect to start seeing progress? Also any advise when changing the substrate out(where to put the discus??? I have no extra tanks... Just one 2.5 gallon that has been empty... And whether or not I can put them back right away after sand is in or if I need to wait?). Sorry for all the questions...

[dagray]

Just a quick update. I have stopped dosing the tank with maracyn two, and have started with 80% water changes. I will continue the larger water changes and on Sunday, I plan to take the gravel out and switch to a thin layer of sand on the bottom. How long after that should I expect to start seeing progress? Also any advise when changing the substrate out(where to put the discus??? I have no extra tanks... Just one 2.5 gallon that has been empty... And whether or not I can put them back right away after sand is in or if I need to wait?). Sorry for all the questions...

buy a large plastic tote... siphon some water from your tank into the tote, place discus in tote. Next do your tank maintenance, and put discus back in tank.

[fljones3]

Might want to throw in an air stone.