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Thread: bbs question

  1. #1

    Default bbs question

    Hi there, I have a batch frys 12 days old , now start feed them bbs, I like to know if there are some brine shrimp shells and unhatched brine shrimp eggs go into the tank with bbs , fry will eat them? and will cause fry death?
    thanks
    Jerry

  2. #2
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    If you shine a flash light on the bottom of your BBS hatching container, the live bbs will swim toward the light where you can siphon them out. It takes 18 hrs more or less for the brine shrimp to hatch, so if you wait that long you will be collecting ones that have hatched. If you do it this way the egg shells float to the top so you don't have to worry about them.
    Mama Bear

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    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Quote Originally Posted by jerry73 View Post
    Hi there, I have a batch frys 12 days old , now start feed them bbs, I like to know if there are some brine shrimp shells and unhatched brine shrimp eggs go into the tank with bbs , fry will eat them? and will cause fry death?
    thanks
    Jerry
    I do similar to what Liz described to get the newly hatched fry, while avoiding the floating shells. I think it's still inevitable that some will make it into the tank. I'm thinking the fry are only interested in the live ones to start so it might not be a problem if you clean up regularly.

  4. #4

    Default Re: bbs question

    thanks for reply, I am ok avoid floating empty shell, just every time I found there are some unhatched eggs mixed with bbs and difficult to separate them, end up some of those unhatched eggs go into fry tank,just afraid fry eat them

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    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question


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    Default Re: bbs question

    But what is the nutritional value of unhatched artemia cysts/or empty shells vs. clean newly hatched de-capped artemia nauplii, or enriched artemia nauplii? Most discus people I know want a feed better than "won't kill my fish". If you can't or don't want to harvest nauplii without removing cysts, you can purchase de-capped cysts, like Brine Shrimp Diret E-Z EGG, or de-cap your own with Sodium hypochlorite and Sodium thiosulfate. (Pro tip-chill the bleach in the refrigerator to 50 F, de-capping is an exothermic reaction). One can also purchase magnetic cysts, and can make a DIY magnetic harvester, eliminating cysts in the aquarium.

  7. #7
    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Yes, most of us prefer feeding bbs with as few cysts and shells as possible. Just pointing out that it won't harm/kill fish if a few sneak by.

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    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Empty shells float to the top and unhatched eggs sink to the bottom. Just let your batch settle for 60 seconds and pull from the middle. BTW, you can pull the BBS and run the whole thing for another 24 hours to get the unhatched eggs to hatch.

    Willie
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam S View Post
    Yes, most of us prefer feeding bbs with as few cysts and shells as possible. Just pointing out that it won't harm/kill fish if a few sneak by.
    Yep, I got that, and btw, I am a fan of Steve and his work with Angels. And yes, by letting the artemia settle one can siphon a pretty clean harvest from the hatch vessel. My main issue is that artemia are fairly nasty/dirty, and improperly harvested and cleaned they can be adding some negative "things" to a tank and unhatched cysts and chorions is not the only thing to consider when feeding artemia nauplii. I might be getting too deep for the op and this thread, (as the question has been answered about a fish ingesting a few shells) but newly hatched artemia from cysts that have not be de-capped are considerably lower in nutritional value than those that have been de-capped first. Not as much concern if you are letting the nauplii develop into an instar that can feed exogenously and then enriching them for 24 hours before feeding, but when feeding newly hatched nauplii the difference is significant. When working with discus, if the goal is to produce quality fish with good strong growth, not cutting corners with brine shrimp can make a difference.

  10. #10
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    What is the evidence that newly hatched nauplii are more nutritious from decapped cysts?

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  11. #11

    Default Re: bbs question

    thanks for the link, the article answered my question.
    before I always use 1.5lt water bottle diy bbs hatchery when its ready I let it set for while and use syringe collect bbs there was no issues. but this time I use JBL brine shrimp hatchery, I use valve at bottom of the cone to collect bbs so whatever unhatched egg at bottom of cone are come out along with the bbs. I think I keep use syringe to collect bbs and avoid those unhatched eggs at bottom.
    Last edited by jerry73; 11-14-2018 at 06:56 PM.

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    Default Re: bbs question

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    What is the evidence that newly hatched nauplii are more nutritious from decapped cysts?

    Willie
    https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/content/dam/...00-106_pdf.pdf

    There have been many peer reviewed scientific publications on the subject. And the research being done with food fish in Europe, Asia, all over the world. Do a Google Scholar search on the subject and you can find a lot of pubs. Another fact is if you are not feeding the nauplii soon after hatching, and are not COLD BANKING them they are losing even more of their nutrition.

  13. #13
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Very helpful, thank you.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  14. #14
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicgup View Post
    But what is the nutritional value of unhatched artemia cysts/or empty shells vs. clean newly hatched de-capped artemia nauplii, or enriched artemia nauplii? Most discus people I know want a feed better than "won't kill my fish". If you can't or don't want to harvest nauplii without removing cysts, you can purchase de-capped cysts, like Brine Shrimp Diret E-Z EGG, or de-cap your own with Sodium hypochlorite and Sodium thiosulfate. (Pro tip-chill the bleach in the refrigerator to 50 F, de-capping is an exothermic reaction). One can also purchase magnetic cysts, and can make a DIY magnetic harvester, eliminating cysts in the aquarium.
    Thanks Hicgup. You just taught me something I didn't know but always felt that live food was best. I feed live BBS unless I do something wrong and they don't hatch. I know how to decapsulate my own with case of emergency.
    Mama Bear

  15. #15
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: bbs question

    Thank you, its an interesting article to be sure on Bbs production in a commercial setting. Theres a lot of good info there but for most hobbyists its really not practical to decapsulate cysts before hatching. Discus fry do fine on bbs hatched from non-decapsulated cysts. I dont know of very many hobbyists out there that will take the time each day to decap first. I don't even know of any large scale
    breeders that do.But maybe there are. Having done hatching Decaps before I can say its a Royal pain. Besides that bleach and Sodium Hydroxide are caustic and toxic as all heck and not something you want to be washing down the drain regularly. In my case it would destroy my septic tank in short order .Also having to chill things in the process really requires a dedicated fridge. Theres no doubt that all the things in the article done on a commercial scale have a value to the process for a large hatchery.But do you need to do these for a tank of Discus Fry? The short answer is No. Why make things more complicated than they need to be for a particular task. The standard hatching method we use with dry cysts works fine and even most larger hatcheries of discus use it .

    That article even talks about needing to enrich the hatched bbs with special nutrients which is a 2 day process, hatch one day, second day enrich. Most discus breeders and hobbyists hatch 2 batches per day so use their hatched bbs in less than 12 hours. There may be less nutrition as time goes on but by doing 2 hatches we get by that. .. Can you imagine the system you would need in place to decapsulate, wash,hatch, and enrich over a 2 day period and constantly over lap so you have fresh bbs?

    Keep in mind also that a key difference in a commercial hatchery and discus breeders is our fry are also fed by the discus slime coat which is nutritional balanced with all a discus needs to grow. We feed bbs to suppliment the frys food not replace it.Thats very different from a commercial hatchery of various finfishes. It may be why our system works but then again even when we artificially raise fry ..bbs hatched from dry cysts work fine.

    Not knocking the article by anymeans but I don't think it says you cant do what we are doing currently... It geared towards commercialized specialized hatcheries..not people like us and not discus. Would it be beneficial? Yes I am sure but does that benefit justify the added time, energy, waste products, storage space etc. For me it does not.

    jmo,
    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 11-16-2018 at 07:34 AM.
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