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Thread: Cannibals r us

  1. #1
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    Default Cannibals r us

    Boy I've had some crazy trouble lately. I've had this breeding pair of discuss (one pigeon blood, the other blue). They spawned about every 10 days about 15 times in a row, each time either eating the eggs, or just not guarding them well in the night when algae eaters are around. I finally got rid of the Chinese algae eaters and got a small pleco, and put up a night light over the 100 gallon tank. They hatched the next time and it's been probably 2 weeks now and they are maybe 1/4 inch long I guess. Small, but they are starting to wander off the parent and eat algae on the plants. Unfortunately, they are slowly declining in numbers. A few days ago, the larger Blue discus started driving the other one into a corner and has been keeping that up. Today, I fed more blood worms to the larger blue one (the male) and witnessed the smaller pigeon sneak up behind him while he was eating, and pop 3 babies into his mouth.. Started at near 40 or so when they hatched, and down to 11 babies now. I'm positive the pigeon was being a good parent for most of the time and the babies were on her many times feeding, but something changed and she turned cannibal. They've been fed very well so I don't see why she had to eat the babies and why after so long? Fortunately, I have another tank with more discus and I scooped her out of there and into the other tank, but only 11 survivors left. It was so upsetting to witness such a casual murder and the babies are so freekin cute. I just wanted to pan fry that momma, but she cost too much to eat

    Anyway, just ranting. I'm guessing if I ever get them together again and try this, I'm just going to have to try to raise the babies without the parents. Any advice appreciated. Sad..

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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    She may be wanting to spawn again. This happens with small spawns sometimes. Welcome to Simply Bradley
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Hi Bradley,
    Welcome to SimplyDiscus! As Pat said they may be getting ready to spawn again.

    it's been probably 2 weeks now and they are maybe 1/4 inch long I guess. Small, but they are starting to wander off the parent and eat algae on the plants. Unfortunately, they are slowly declining in numbers
    Have you been feeding the fry if so what and how often. What could be happening is the pair aren't making enough slime to feed the fry, so the fry forage.. The more they forage and the farther they forage the less they feed of the parents and that feeding is part of the parenting instinct I believe. Eventually the bond is broken and they go back to egg laying,

    if you feed the fry with Baby Brine Shrimp they will not forage far from the parents and they will be more likely to stay by their side and continue feeding on them. Fry feeding off the parents stimulates more slime being made and keeps them in the parenting mode.

    Hth,
    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 11-17-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Being a nub, I have been unsuccessful in getting my brine shrimp eggs to hatch. Put them in a quart of water for an hour, then added 2 TBS salt and aeration and they never did hatch. I've tried before and same result. Doing something wrong. Eggs are probably a year old. Anyway, I've been periodically squirting frozen baby brine shrimp down over the dad and it slowly drifts down over him, but not noticed the babies eating it. I have noticed the babies wandering away from dad to forage on plants, but they never get more than maybe 3-5 inches away from him. 98% of the time they were still picking on his side to eat. You may have a point about the bond: For the most part, I've only ever seen the babies on the female (reddish pigeon blood) a couple times. They always preferred the dark blue male. So the female never really had that bond. They all hung out together for quite a while though before this happened. After maybe 10-12 days of being happy, the male started driving the female to the other side of the tank and the baby numbers started dropping slowly. I suspected, but didn't act until I witnessed it myself. Not sure what to do. I took the female out and put her into a 35 gal tank, but it's somewhat crowded there. Now I've got this 100 gallon tank with just the male and 11 babies.. Perhaps I should take the babies out and put them in a 10-gallon tank? Wife won't let me have another large tank to play with, but I can pull out my old 10 gal. I do worry about the babies starving once I pull them from the male. Perhaps their instincts would allow them to but I don't know.

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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Brine shrimp eggs need to be stored cool to hatch out... if the ones you bought came from the LFS they probably are not Viable.. Brine shrimp Direct is a good place to get good eggs...They aren't cheap but they are good. Follow their hatching instructions...
    https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/br...e-shrimp-eggs/

    you can also buy .. https://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...3&pcatid=16873
    bbs.jpg
    which work well for small batches of fry ...


    Another option is hatching decaps. These are easy to hatch and feed.
    https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/br...-free-e-z-egg/
    Ez400ml.v2.jpg

    Once they are eating BBS they really don't even need the parents any more and can be removed and fed that in the 10 gal for awhile.

    al
    Last edited by Second Hand Pat; 11-17-2018 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Fixed link
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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Thanks Al. Given the 2nd recommendation above, should I assume that if I feed my fry frozen baby brine shrimp that this would also be ok? I'm getting the impression from some that the babies wouldn't eat it until they get older, but I don't know how old that is. I guess I should probably try to hatch my own but it's always been so hit or miss. I didn't know you had to store eggs frozen but that's what the first link you sent shows, so that's for sure why my eggs are duds. They've been at room temp for a year. I'll order some and give it another shot. I'm going to setup the 10 gal and put the babies in there very soon, and hoping they will actually eat. They are wandering off the dad somewhat now and I'm afraid he's going to lose his 'bond' with them and chow down, so going to get them out of there as quick as I can get this other tank stable and then hope they will eat. Thank you again for the info. Going to check out AquaticSuppliers.com now.

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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Hi Bradley,
    Theres a few products that are sold that are "frozen hatched baby brine shrimp" these are, ime ,very poor substitutes and not a great food option. You can easily hatch and freeze your own though which is something I do regularly here so I never am without.

    Your fry are capable of eating the newly hatched baby brine shrimp as soon as the fry's yolk sacks have been used up and absorbed. This corresponds to when they go free swimming and start feeding off the parents.

    I would move them out now. At their age if you can't get hatched bbs for them right away you can use finely ground tetrabits or flakes. Soak them well(20mins) and feed to the fry.Feed sparingly and do good maintenance as its messy and fouls the water fast. But it will work in a pinch..The bbs is best.

    To move the fry set your 10 gal up using water initially from the tank they are in.This will minimize stress. Once in the 10 gal tank have a look at our current grow out contest for ideas on how best to raise them.
    Hth,
    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 11-19-2018 at 05:43 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Just a quick update.. 13 babies transferred to 10 gal tank and they are doing great. I put momma back in the 90 gallon tank and she wanted to spawn within an hour. 2 days later, they had done the deed yet again, and the male once again started driving mamma cannibal away, so I pulled her back out of the tank to let Daddy raise this batch by himself. So far, they are looking great. Hatched but not yet free swimming. bub.jpg

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    The Cannibal: Pretty but evil.

    bub.jpg

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    Default Re: Cannibals r us

    Yes, I myself found the female are evil as well. My first discus couple and first spawn... actually hatch to wrigglers... I removed the metal mesh figuring I would let them taking care of some of the few babies that fall down. The female instantly went over and eat them all in front of me within seconds, faster than I could even react... while the male is attacking her as well.

    Ever since, many unsuccessful spawn after that... don't know why, but all egg turn white now after 5 spawn already.

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