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Thread: Bristlenose surprise

  1. #16
    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    I was setting up my 75 gal for shrimp but decided against it because they would be too small for such a big tank. I’d also like to set up a tank for them. I didn’t know they ate snails. Good to know if one sneaks in on the plants. Also surprised about “canned” green beans. I have almond leaves; are they okay to use?
    I like the easy maintenance and thinking I want some too! I’ve also wanted to try a HMF. I would like a few endlers too.
    Thanks for sharing this with us Adam. I’ll be tuning in for plecos tomorrow!
    Patty
    If the discus are happy, I’m happy

  2. #17
    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Adam, I was planning on using a Big Block filter in the tank. I've had a hankering for one of these since he became a sponsor. In the picture it looks like i will work well, but I'll take a very close look at it to make sure that it won't suck up the baby shrimp.

    I want this tank two weeks ago but doing it right takes time. At least I don't have to do carpentry.
    Liz, I don’t know what size tank you’re looking at, but Joie said you need a minimum 20 gal high for a sm big block.
    Patty
    If the discus are happy, I’m happy

  3. #18
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    It's a 30. I bet the filter will be too tall. Dang. I'll find another use for it, but I'm disappointed.
    Mama Bear

  4. #19
    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    I found an easy peasy to make a stand. http://pinkaspen.blogspot.com/2013/0...um-stand.htmlI don't care if it's not pretty because it will be in my office. If nobody sees it but me, pretty is an unnecessary luxury. I can buy everything I need at my local hardware store that also sells lumber. I am so looking forward to this project.
    Concrete block stands are great. I've seen people cover them in sheets for a cleaner look, but they look fine without imo. Can't wait to see how the setup turns out with the new filter too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pices View Post
    I was setting up my 75 gal for shrimp but decided against it because they would be too small for such a big tank. I’d also like to set up a tank for them. I didn’t know they ate snails. Good to know if one sneaks in on the plants. Also surprised about “canned” green beans. I have almond leaves; are they okay to use?
    I like the easy maintenance and thinking I want some too! I’ve also wanted to try a HMF. I would like a few endlers too.
    Thanks for sharing this with us Adam. I’ll be tuning in for plecos tomorrow!
    Patty
    A 75 gallon would be a great sales tank for thousands of shrimp! It'd look like ants underwater. They generally leave bigger snails alone unless starving, but they do eat a lot of pinhead-sized ones. Indian almond leaves are fine, better (but more expensive) than oak.

    Here's an older video of them eating some canned green beans, along with a Czech strain of super reds:



    The light colored shrimp came from a tank with soft water. It doesn't correct itself (babies born red/pink stay red/pink), and I still don't get why it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pices View Post
    I would like a few endlers too.
    Happy to send some along if you don't care about pedigree ("N-class"):


  5. #20
    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    It's a 30. I bet the filter will be too tall. Dang. I'll find another use for it, but I'm disappointed.
    I was disappointed too as I was going to get one for my 20 gal. It’s just as well since I’m thinking I’ll look for a HMF now if they aren’t too expensive. They are sweet though. Let me know how you like it.
    Patty
    If the discus are happy, I’m happy

  6. #21
    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    OMG! I wouldn’t have known that was a green bean! My pH is 7.4 so mine will be bright. I’m debating on trying to talk my husband into it or just follow Paul’s advice and, “beg for forgiveness” after. Lol. I saw some really cool endlers at my fish store today. I don’t know what class they are or the price, so I may take you up on that Adam. Thanks for posting that video! I’ve been wanting shrimp for a long time, but now I can’t stop thinking about them.
    Patty
    If the discus are happy, I’m happy

  7. #22
    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Pleco time! Bristlenose (also known as: bushy nose, Ancistrus, and "antenna catfish" in German) are an all-around great fish. They're algae eating machines with bold personalities (bold for plecos) and relatively low demands. After guppies and other livebearers, they're probably the second most commonly bred fish in the home aquarium. Unlike angels and discus, their eggs hatch in almost any water condition. Males with eggs constantly fan them with fresh water and clean them with their mouths, resulting in very few losses to fungus. Temperature range is below 70F to probably above 90F, but 78F-80F is the sweet spot for health and breeding. pH and TDS are of zero concern. Tank size is flexible depending on what goals the owner has for the fish. For breeding pairs, I've used everything from 10 to 125 gallons. 10 gallon tanks are fine if you plan to pull and raise fry separately, but 20 gallons allow you to leave a spawn or two with the parents before intervening. Adults are of no threat to free-swimming fry. I typically pull fry a couple days after hatching (wiggler stage), but pleco dads are very capable if you want a more hands off approach. Males should generally be kept one to a tank, but something like a 55 gallon can usually house two. I say usually, because my mean albino male killed a couple smaller males in a 75 gallon 12 hours after they were added, so results may very. For growing out, the silly "inch per gallon" rule works surprisingly well, though it's more dependent on tank foot print than tank volume. Also, make sure to cover the tank. You wouldn't think it of a ground-dwelling catfish, but I've lost more bristlenose than any other fish to jumping.

    Breeding is very easy, and fish will often breed in community tanks without the owner knowing. To determine male/female before the males grow tentacles, feel the nose. Males' noses are squishy, females' noses are bony and rigid. Females will sometimes grow a few short bristles on the outer lip, but never on top of the snout like the males. Gravid females will look like they swallowed a marble. Believe it or not, male bristle size is not a permanent thing, as they can grow and shrink in response to environmental changes. The dominant male in a group or a happy male without competition will have large bristles, while subdominant males or unhappy males (maybe due to large, scary tank mates) will have stubby or even no bristles at all.

    Moving on from the face gear, bristlenose will spawn much more readily if given a cave (I buy mine from here: http://plecocaves.com/, but there are many DIY options as well). Mature males spend most of their time in caves, waiting for food and females to drop by. They defend it fiercely from other males (hence the one male per tank guideline) and can be very picky about the size and shape, so try a different one if he doesn't spend 90% of his time in it (1.5"x1" rectangle caves work well for large adults). It should be noted that introducing caves to growing fish too early will stunt their growth. Males that cave up and look for mates don't eat as much, so their growth tends to stop or greatly slow down once caves are introduced. This (amongst other reasons) is why you see a lot of 2" adults on the market, when most are capable of growing 4" or more. It can take well over a year to get slow growing strains like super red and blue-eyes to size. Besides a cave, a piece of soft wood like Malaysian driftwood is a very good addition. Bristlenose will chew on it and females and fry usually hide under it, preferring wood or other structures to caves. Plants aren't necessary in a bristlenose tank but usually won't get eaten if the fish are well fed. Spawning usually doesn't require any triggers, just clean water and good food. If you see a male sitting half outside his cave flapping his pelvic fins, he's ready to go.

    Fry care is similar to other fish, if not easier. After the eggs are laid, they will hatch in about 4 days (wigglers). They'll wiggle for a few more days and start eating around 4-5 days after hatching. If they're with dad, they'll nibble on his waste and be ready for real food once they leave the cave. If you're cruel and steal them a day or two after hatching like me, you'll want to provide them a sprig of wood or leaves and some waste in the fry trap, and start feeding real food around 6-7 days after hatching (when you see bits of their own excrement). I pull fry because I find growth rates are more even in smaller containers compared to the parents' tank. They don't move much, so by stuffing them in fry trap and feeding well, even the slow ones get to eat. If left in the parents' tank, strong lighting is good as it grows brown algae for the fry to eat. Frozen BBS (so it doesn't swim off the bottom) is the best food, though soft foods like canned french-cut green beans and dry foods that dissolve like earthworm sticks also work. They eat very little early on but start packing away the groceries after a couple weeks or so. Feedings should be frequent, as young bristlenose can starve in only a few hours. If you experience unexplained losses early on and you're 100% positive it isn't starvation, treat the tank with formalin/malachite green combo (Rid Ich+ is good, doesn't kill shrimp) at the prescribed amount for 3 doses, followed by a 10 day resting period, followed by another 3 doses with big water changes between doses. Salt is also helpful (completely safe for plecos and cories), though I usually just use Rid Ich+. I've been told it's Chilodonella, a type of protozoa that attacks the gills of young fish. After treatment, random deaths usually stop. If you do decide to setup some breeders, make sure you have a market or a use for the fry. My German super red trio averaged about 70 fry every two weeks, with the biggest clutch being 181 (two females spawned with the same male hours apart). It can get out of hand quickly.

    In my opinion, HMF's are the best option for bristlenose filtration. They eat a lot and poop accordingly. Their favorite food (canned green beans) is also terribly messy, both stringy and mushy at the same time. Power filters muck up really quickly, and standard sponges don't gather the waste in easy to siphon piles like HMF's do. The only downside is that the large Jetlifter Dr. Tanner sells with most HMF kits is big enough to allow fish to swim through to the back. If I were buying them again, I'd definitely get the smaller ones or small electric pumps. Another note about sponge filters, take the lift tubes off. Adults will sometimes get stuck in the lift tubes and die if not attended to.

    They'll eat whatever you give them, but favorite foods include canned french-cut green beans, squash (slightly boiled for young fish), and meaty foods like bloodworms brine shrimp, though meaty foods should be fed with caution. Other good foods are bell pepper, melon (they like most fruits, but not sure how good sugar is for them and they go bad quickly), sweet potato (great for fry if slightly boiled, as they can eat it throughout the day), dry foods and various prepared foods like Repashy. Supposedly, beef heart and too much protein rich food can cause intestinal blockages in bristlenose. I've never experienced the latter and never tried the former, but they do love veggies... Best practice is probably a compromise of predominantly vegetables or dry foods with rich foods only once or twice a week. They should definitely not be treated as scavengers, and I think such treatment is responsible for the majority of discus attacks reported. A trio of large adults can eat over half a can of green beans in 24 hours, so give them at least a little food after lights out in a community tank.

    That's all I have for bristlenose (for now). Greg Sage also has a really nice article about breeding them (http://www.selectaquatics.com/articl...ing_plecos.htm), and although I disagree with a few points, the core beliefs are basically the same. If you need any other clarifications, feel free to ask!

  8. #23
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Thanks, Adam. Helpful read! Turns out we have more in common that shaking our heads at Ian Kinsler's "gold glove" defense late in the night, as I have two (small!) tanks full of red cherry shrimp, endlers, and a tank dedicated to blue-eyed bristenose. I'm happy to add my encouragement to anyone thinking about any of these. Don't have as much experience as Adam with any of them, but have had fun with all of them.

    I had been planning to get advice on feeding the BN fry from you as I've had a very laissez-faire approach to the BN tank and it seems as though a lot of them starve. They're in a 40 breeder and it may be that they don't move around enough to find food, or recognize it that well, and I've hesitated to add too much for fear of polluting the tank, and gunking up the power filter with Poret prefilter I use. (I have about three generations of fish, but really only a handful from each hatch.) I tried regular-cut canned green beans a month or so ago, but they seem to mostly float around and start turning to mush. In the past the parents ate blanched broccoli stems really well, but having a few of those around wasn't enough to raise fish. Only thing they're reliably eating right now are Hikari sinking wafers. I also have some Repashy they seem okay with when I use that. It sounds like I should try some frozen BBS... Open to ideas. Also, you've got me thinking about my HMF 40 kit I have sitting in a box.... I was going to use it to control tank floor space for when I move the discus grow-outs, but I find myself thinking that it's really best suited to the BN tank!

    Anyway, thanks for the info! Hope other discus people have some fun with all of these critters. They're great!

  9. #24
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Since the Big Block filter will be too tall for my tank I thought about the HMF filters. Where did y'all get your filter kits. My tank it 26X12X12. I did the math on it a long time ago and I thought it came out to 30 gallons. The kit they have on the Swiss Tropical site for a 30 gallon of different dimensions and is $50. which is more than I thought that I would have to spend. I don't have the tools to cut a sheet of foam to size or drill the hole unless a regular hole bit for wood would work.
    Mama Bear

  10. #25
    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Tshethar View Post
    Thanks, Adam. Helpful read! Turns out we have more in common that shaking our heads at Ian Kinsler's "gold glove" defense late in the night, as I have two (small!) tanks full of red cherry shrimp, endlers, and a tank dedicated to blue-eyed bristenose. I'm happy to add my encouragement to anyone thinking about any of these. Don't have as much experience as Adam with any of them, but have had fun with all of them.

    I had been planning to get advice on feeding the BN fry from you as I've had a very laissez-faire approach to the BN tank and it seems as though a lot of them starve. They're in a 40 breeder and it may be that they don't move around enough to find food, or recognize it that well, and I've hesitated to add too much for fear of polluting the tank, and gunking up the power filter with Poret prefilter I use. (I have about three generations of fish, but really only a handful from each hatch.) I tried regular-cut canned green beans a month or so ago, but they seem to mostly float around and start turning to mush. In the past the parents ate blanched broccoli stems really well, but having a few of those around wasn't enough to raise fish. Only thing they're reliably eating right now are Hikari sinking wafers. I also have some Repashy they seem okay with when I use that. It sounds like I should try some frozen BBS... Open to ideas. Also, you've got me thinking about my HMF 40 kit I have sitting in a box.... I was going to use it to control tank floor space for when I move the discus grow-outs, but I find myself thinking that it's really best suited to the BN tank!

    Anyway, thanks for the info! Hope other discus people have some fun with all of these critters. They're great!
    At least they took care of biz in games 4-5 . Hopefully the C's can right the ship too.

    Do you split the green beans? Little guys can't get through the skin, and adults don't particularly care for it. French-cut are the way to go! Besides fresh stuff, I use a lot of earthworm, veggie, and spirulina sticks.

    Personally, I wouldn't use an HMF with discus unless they were adults. HMF's excel in tanks that don't get babied on a daily basis. No need for a jumbo waste processing plant if you're siphoning waste and changing water every day. It'd work very well on your bristlenose tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Since the Big Block filter will be too tall for my tank I thought about the HMF filters. Where did y'all get your filter kits. My tank it 26X12X12. I did the math on it a long time ago and I thought it came out to 30 gallons. The kit they have on the Swiss Tropical site for a 30 gallon of different dimensions and is $50. which is more than I thought that I would have to spend. I don't have the tools to cut a sheet of foam to size or drill the hole unless a regular hole bit for wood would work.
    Swiss Tropicals. Your tank has really cool dimensions; is it a custom build? The 15/20L/33 gallon HMF kit might work (it's 11.75" tall and 12.5" wide) and is only $24 compared to $50. Shipping is $12 for all but the biggest orders, so stock up if you need it.

    If you have to buy a small sheet and cut it to size yourself, want the foam to be a 1/2" wider than the inside width of your tank (needs to fit snugly). 20 or 30 ppi is fine. The foam cuts really easily if you have a sharp kitchen knife, and I usually use a razor blade with with a straight edge to first score the cut, then finish it with the knife. Don't saw at it, long smooth cuts.

    For cutting a notch to fit the Jetlifter, check out this video: https://youtu.be/1lYTE1vwX9M?t=956. You want the outflow of the Jetlifter to be about 1/2 to 1/3 underwater.
    Last edited by Adam S; 11-24-2018 at 04:00 PM.

  11. #26
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    That was of great help. Thanks, Adam. I bought the tank from a guppy breeder. I don't think it was custom built but don't know for sure. He had a bunch of them. I gave all but 1 away because they're a terrible shape for Discus and Angels.
    Last edited by LizStreithorst; 11-24-2018 at 05:03 PM.
    Mama Bear

  12. #27
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Forgive me. I typed in the wrong dimensions. The tank it 30" long.
    Mama Bear

  13. #28
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    I have become obsessed. The tank is up and running with an air stone and a heater. The hardware store in my small town sold all it's regular concrete blocks yesterday to someone building a house. I bought some others that would work well enough. The tank sits a bit lower than I had planned but it's fine with me. I still have a perfect view of it from my desk.

    The blocks are pretty ugly but I figured out an easy way to pretty it up. I'll use liquid nails to attach my left over 1/2" ply and add trim on the edges and corners. I don't see why that shouldn't work. I have a pint of walnut stain to use on it which will compliment my Hershey bar brown walls. I'll buy the supplies tomorrow. I'll also swing by my LFS, pick up a bag of fine gravel and see if he can get me the plants you recommenced, Adam.

    Since I have to watch my pennies, despite my obsession, I did a lot of digging around on line for a light and an HMF filter. I bought this https://www.ebay.com/itm/28303128672...&s=ci&mail=sys
    and this https://www.ebay.com/itm/28175562679...&s=ci&mail=sys

    I'll wait a while to let the plants get established and growing happily before I get the fish and shrimp. Adam, do you suggest one male and 2 females in my 30 gallon tank? How many of each plant should I buy? How many shrimp should I add so start? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a newbie.
    Mama Bear

  14. #29
    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    For a 30" tank with plants, I'd suggest only a pair of Ancistrus and at least 20 shrimp. Not sure what size plants your LFS has, but maybe a couple types of small Anubias, couple portions of moss, and a Java fern to get going. If you like floating plants, check out water sprite:

    20180531_0703491263472822.jpg

  15. #30
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bristlenose surprise

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have Anubias growing like gang busters in my community tank. I have a bunch of Plecos, too. So far I've found 2 good sized male albinos. I haven't found a female yet. I have lots of blue eyed but I prefer the long finned. I'll keep looking. The little snots are experts and not being found when you're looking for them.
    Mama Bear

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