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View Poll Results: Which whater change option?

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  • RO constant drip

    2 20.00%
  • RO drain/fill at sump

    0 0%
  • RO plus conditioned water drip

    3 30.00%
  • RO plus conditioned drain fill at sump

    6 60.00%
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Thread: Going big...... advice please.

  1. #1
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    Default Going big...... advice please.

    Hello,

    7 years ago, I sold my 90 gallon planted discus tank because I decided to build a house and I no longer had the time for my tank. I was lacking water changes and made it into a torture chamber. Could not let that happen. In the mean time, had two kids, sold my house and built another one. Time flies.

    I have had a 120 gallon in storage with plans to set up a tank...... but then a friend decided to give me his 500 gallon tank. Now I am planning the tank move, building a stand, etc.

    The tank is roughly 35 D x 36 H x 96 W. It has a 75 gallon DIY sump with two pumps. The sump can loose 50 gallons before starving the pumps (I was told). The tank has an overflow return.

    My water is :
    E6C877C3-578F-4DDA-A10D-A571A3D032F0.jpg


    So hard and high PH.

    458A785F-2AD9-41BF-AD1C-625ECC830B55.jpg

    Chloramine is used as disinfectant.

    When I built my current house, I plumbed in drains into the walls at the two locations where I wanted to put my tank, so water changes could be done easier.

    The house has a 20” carbon filter followed by a water softener. I can tap into any of those lines easily.

    I plan to do a concrete over foam rock facade in the back..... age it until the ph neutralizes, then do very large driftwood, minimal sand bottom, and plants. The plants will be mostly on the logs and “rock” features. Anubis Nana, Java fer, Java Moss, and sprites.

    Looking at 10 discus, 100 cardinal tetras, 5-7 clown loaches, 3-5 Cory cats, 5 farlawella, some otto’s, and a few blue rams.

    I plan on starting with manual water changes by valve, but may go to automatic or drip.

    Here are the questions........

    I think I will need RO, so I am thinking of doing it after the carbon filter, but should I do it after the softener?

    I am think of plumbing my sump overflow to my drain and running RO continuously into the tank for a constant water change, but that seams wasteful.....any thoughts?

    Other option is to drain the sump down and refill with RO.... thoughts?

    Finally, other option...... mix RO with some treated tap water every day with one of the above setups to conserve some water and allow some minerals into the water.

    What are your thoughts?


    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Ramdough; 12-10-2018 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    One thing I did not mention is that I plan to build up everything SLOWLY. It will probably take 6 months just to get the empty tank stable with just the background. The fish will also be added slowely to get everything right. Plants will be added small and grown out. I predict a 3-5 years until it is fully populated.

  3. #3
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Hello and Welcome to SimplyDiscus!

    Sounds like a fun project! I have a few comments and questions on it though.

    I plan to do a concrete over foam rock facade in the back..... age it until the ph neutralizes, then do very large driftwood, minimal sand bottom, and plants. The plants will be mostly on the logs and “rock” features. Anubis Nana, Java fer, Java Moss, and sprites.
    I've no experience here but I don't think that Concrete will ever Neutralize. I think it will always mess with your pH and leach minerals into the tank... Maybe Epoxy over the foam would be better? or at least seal the concrete in epoxy.


    You mentioned
    adding Fish slowly to get everything right and that these would be the fish...
    Looking at 10 discus, 100 cardinal tetras, 5-7 clown loaches, 3-5 Cory cats, 5 farlawella, some otto’s, and a few blue rams.
    Are you planning on growing out the discus or buying adults? If you are going to have a mixed species tank, I would not include the Clown loaches as they are too active for Discus and skip the Ottos as they will irritate the Discus as they graze on them. My advice is set your tank up, Discus only and get all discus at one time. Then long after everything is stable.. Get your other fish and quarantine for a minimium 6 weeks before adding. Minimize adding fish multiple times and you will minimize your headaches!

    Since its a planted Display tank and not a breeding tank. I think you can get away with just tap waters thats been treated for Chloramines..at most aging it if necessary.




    Looking forward to watching the progress. Please take out a Journal thread when you start.

    hth,
    al
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Thank you for the reply.

    I spoke to a reputable tank display company. They said the concrete needs to cure for 30 days, then it needs to be soaked and water changed a few times, then it should be fine. I might epoxy paint it anyway after a few washings. Still gathering ideas. I will look into concrete more before I start building.

    I am good with skipping the ottos. I have had them before, and never noticed them on a discus. Is that a common problem? Farlawella are my favorite algae eater anyway.

    In planted tanks, I have had good use of clown loaches...... otherwise snales have gotten out of control. What is your recommendation instead of a clown loach to kill Snales?

    With an avaerage PH of 8.3 and a max of 8.8........ you don’t think that is too high?

    I do not plan to try to breed, but if I could make the fish environment healthy and they tried to breed in the large tank, I would not be opposed to it.

    I would like to start with smaller discuss and grow them up in the large tank. I will have a separate quarantine tank setup and possibly the 120. I could use them as a temporary location.

  5. #5
    Registered Member dagray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    To keep snails under control teach the discus to hunt the snails. I did this by squishing the snails on the front glass of the aquarium and then the discus could come eat the snail meat. Pretty soon the discus were actively hunting the snails (pond snails in my case).
    God is the artist, he merely allows me to see and capture his work . http://davesphotography7055.zenfolio.com/ coupon code: angelfish
    some of my work accepted by Pentax (the camera bodies I use): http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/davidgray

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramdough View Post
    Thank you for the reply.

    I spoke to a reputable tank display company. They said the concrete needs to cure for 30 days, then it needs to be soaked and water changed a few times, then it should be fine. I might epoxy paint it anyway after a few washings. Still gathering ideas. I will look into concrete more before I start building.
    I'm sure they know more than myself but I disagree. If you would like your water to be below 7.0ph and slightly acidic then the concrete will be a problem. I had a outdoor pond that was concrete and it was constantly very high 8.7pH and above and it was 25 yrs old before I moved in. Everything you use to reduce pH will eat parts of the concrete (neutralize) and may bounce back up to where it will want to stay.

    It definitely will need to be coated with something.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramdough View Post
    but then a friend decided to give me his 500 gallon tank.
    Random question, would your friend want to be my friend?
    Last edited by snxtif; 12-11-2018 at 10:45 PM.
    Water change is not just a chore, it's my life now...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    I am having second thoughts on the background. It seams like it may be more effort and hassle than it is worth.

    Instead, I looked at the local landscape rock supplier. The only rocks that are ph neutral are lava boulders. I am leaning towards using some large root ball stumps I pulled from a lake years ago with some lava rock accents. Then planting a background planted curtain to cover much of the back wall.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Whenever I use rocks in a tank I go for granite. Granites,quartz and feldspars may drop your pH a tad but not something I would worry about. lava rocks are not always inert and can raise pH if not. be sure to test the rock with vinegar before using..

    hth,
    Al
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
    Simplydiscus LLC Owner
    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Assassin snails are a suitable snail control. They are pretty (for a snail) and do a great job keeping nuisance snail populations under control.

    I have a few thoughts:

    If your house has a water softener there is a good chance that if you use pre-softener water you will end up with deposits around the rim of your tank which can be pretty unsightly, especially for a display tank. I don't have experience but have others had success keeping discus with water from a water softener?

    Sump overflows can be loud, is the tank near a TV? Do you like the sound of a draining toilet 24/7? I use and like a 'Herbie' setup. (http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-...method-basics/)

    Silent overflows like a Herbie require a constant water level and a tank your size might lose up to 5 gallons of water a day due to evaporation. I use an RO connected Auto-topoff.

    With a constant RO drip W/C you could use setups like saltwater reefers that use dosing pumps of kalkwasser and Mg to maintain KH and GH.

    If you decide to install an RO unit you should do it after your water softener, the membranes were designed for seawater desalination in mind and are much more efficient with sodium over other metal ions.

    You aren't putting many fish in a 500 gallon tank.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Whenever I use rocks in a tank I go for granite. Granites,quartz and feldspars may drop your pH a tad but not something I would worry about. lava rocks are not always inert and can raise pH if not. be sure to test the rock with vinegar before using..

    hth,
    Al
    Thanks for the tip on lava rocks.

    There are a lot of granites in TX. They are just very heavy. I will try the vinegar first, then granite if I can’t find good lava rocks.

    Thanks!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    James,


    Thanks for the response. I will consider the assassin snails. I have seen them in small tanks. I was not sure how effective they are on a large tank.

    I had a 90 once that was cycling empty with just plants for an extended time. By the time I started adding fish, the sandy substraight looked like it was moving...... probably had 1000 snails. Clown loaches cleared it up in a few weeks.

    Right now, the tank has a large overflow with 2 large slotted stand pipes. The filter is a trickle filter over a sump. There are two Iwaki pumps as well. One goes directly back into a return and the larger one pushes through a lifeguard cartridge filter.

    It is pretty noisy. I plan to put the pumps and lifeguard inside my garage (behind my tank room) and leave the sump underneath.

    I do want to silence the tank down a bit. I considered putting bio balls in the overflow, but I am not sure if that will do anything. I will look into trying one if these other overflow designs.

    I get the tank Sunday after New Years. I built a steel stand with temporary casters so that I can move it easily until I am ready to fill it. (Casters come off before final fill). I will pre plumb the tank on the stand in my garage where I can experiment before installing it in the house.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    I started with 6 assassin snails in a 90 gallon tank, they reproduce (slowly) and in accordance with food availability so you might need a larger starting number on a 500 gallon tank but if you start with 0 nuisance snails they should do a decent job of taking out any free-loaders before they establish. Your water looks like it from a Mid-West well, I'd send you some or pick up if you are near Madison WI.

    I've seen them munching on mysis shrimp so they will eat the food your discus miss if there aren't enough snails to go around.

    In my experience owning and seeing a lot of different sump'ed tanks a lot of the noise is the tumbling into the overflow. You can do a Durso standpipe which is easy and is quieter than a basic standpipe or because you have two standpipes you can do a Herbie which in my opinion is the way to go. My tank is right next to the TV and not noticeable at all when correctly adjusted.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    Well, I got the tank home. It is actually under 500. My guess is 400-450. Not worth the time to get an exact number. I also picked up two 35 gallon spin top barrels for suplenting my filter. All free to me from friends.

    My current plan is to build a stand in my garage directly behind the tank room. The stand will be close in height to the tank stand. Then have the overflow go through the wall and up into the bottom of the first barrel. Then that will have an overflow stand pipe that goes into the second barrel. Then that will have an overflow that goes into my trickle tower and sump. The sump will have my heaters. The output of the sump are two Iwaki pumps. The larger one forces water through a triple tall Lifeguard mechanical filter and then to 2 aim able return jets. The smaller pump just goes to two aim able return jets. I will have to tune the overflows so that the water does not make much noise and gravity moves it easily to the sump.

    On day one, I will only have water in the barrels. As I add fish, I will add K1 fluidized media and each barrel will have about 2 cubic feet of media. The idea is to way over filter and have plenty of plants to help with water quality. The only new parts I will need to buy for the filters are bulkheads for the barrels. Eventually I will also need the k1 media and either a large air pump or a smaller one with a submersible pump. But, if/when I want to add media can be later and meanwhile my costs are low.

    I am also going to have to finish setting up my workshop before I get too far into the tank, so progress will be slow for a while.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Going big...... advice please.

    The trickle tower appears to be about 1 cubic foot of bioballs for reference.

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