Possibly Swim Bladder?

[Demosthenes]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

My best guess is a swim bladder issue triggered by fluctuating temperatures. Symptoms are described below. I first noticed one fish showing the symptoms on 12/9. 2 others seemed to be starting to show symptoms of being off-balance on 12/13, but they were fine the following day.

About three weeks ago I had my tank heater fail, and there have been unusual fluctuations in temp as a result. First the heater stopped working and the temp dropped to about 78 degrees from 84 over the course of 6 hrs. In the days following I’ve struggled to dial in my back-up heaters, and it has bounced between 80 and 86. This seems like the only obvious trigger for what I’m seeing.

There is also a chance that there was cross contamination from a new betta that was added to a separate tank about 2 weeks ago. I’ve definitely moved my wet hands between tanks.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills,*white/yellow/green poop, hiding,*headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus,*blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

I first noticed the fish was dark and inactive 12/9, but still eating. The following morning it was completely black and resting on the bottom of the tank, still upright but listing to the side with the nose pointed upward at a 45 degree angle. Occasionally it tried to swim around but seemed to be very off balance. It has refused food since.

There are no other symptoms. Poop was normal until it stopped eating, no swelling, no marks or abrasions on the skin, fins are not clamped, breathing is normal. The fish started to show a little white fungus on the edge of it’s tail, but that was only after resting on the ground for a full 24 hrs, so I think it’s secondary.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

On 12/9 I did a 90% water change and added melafix and table salt to the display tank. By the evening of 12/10 the one fish looked much worse, so on 12/11 at 8am I moved it to a hospital tank and dosed with Furan 2 and Kanaplex according to the instructions on the box, also 2 tblsp salt in 15gals. Currently it’s been 4 days of antibiotics and it’s hard to say if there is any improvement. It seems this morning like it’s been trying to swim around more rather than resting on the bottom, but it’s still totally off balance. I honestly can’t tell if active or lethargic is better or worse in this case - it’s still dark and tail standing.

At this point I’ve completed one course of Furan 2 and 2 courses of Kanaplex - and I’m not sure if I should continue, or what my next step should be. I’m leaning towards a few days of just salt and daily water changes.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
110gal, 6 discus 2yrs old, 1 discus 9?? yrs old. All have been in the tank for over 1.5yrs.

Also 6 or so tetras, 5 ottos, and 8 dicrossus. Most recent addition to the tank was the otto cats maybe 2-3 months ago?

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
~85% weekly. I was doing bi-weekly, but in the last few months have fallen behind. Will pick up with bi-weekly moving forward.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
2yrs
Pool filter sand ranging from 1 inch to barely covering the surface

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes, 24 hrs, no swing

8. Parameters and water source;

- temp _____ Normally 83, but have had issues lately as described above. Currently 84.

- ph _____*6.7

- ammonia reading ____ 0

- nitrite reading ____ 0

- nitrate reading ____ around 15ppm 3 days after a large water change

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- municipal water ____50%

- RO water ____50%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Not in this tank. I did get a new betta in a separate tank a few weeks ago and there could have been cross contamination.

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Tetra Color Bits, 1 or 2 times daily

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

Here is a video from this morning: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D1...B9CVAEWZguqF5V

[jeep]

Doesn't look like swim bladder. IME, discus with swim bladder issues usually become head standers and have a pronounced bulge in the mid-section. Hopefully someone can be of more assistance...

[bluelagoon]

Looks more like a concussion more so than swim bladder.

[Demosthenes]

Looks more like a concussion more so than swim bladder.

I hadn't considered this because the symptoms developed over the course of about 24 hrs. Would that make sense for head injury?

[bluelagoon]

Not if it developed over time.

[Demosthenes]

Mostly just tail standing at this point: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wo...fx-cATTKeMk3P_
It moves around like it did in the video if I disturb it, but if I leave it alone it tail stands in the corner up near the surface of the water.

I discontinued Kanaplex since the bottle said to not dose past 6 days. I'm continuing with Furan 2. I also grabbed another not so lovely fish and put it in the hospital tank to keep this one company through the second course of Furan2. It doesn't seem to be making any difference.

I don't know if this is even bacterial. That was the only thing that seemed to fit - but the antibiotics don't seem to be doing anything. I don't know if going from resting on the bottom to tail standing at the surface is an improvement or a decline. The tail rot has disappeared though now that it isn't sitting on the bottom of the tank.

I really don't know what my next step should be.

[Demosthenes]

It seems like it's getting worse - weaker and more disoriented. Does no one have any suggestions?

[Tuterosso]

its some kind bacteria, i have few times and all fish die. Last fish start hide in the evening and morning swim like your, few days later in treatment die.
Maybe oxytetracycline can help have bigger spectrum of working on bacteria

[Second Hand Pat]

Perhaps continue with this

At this point I’ve completed one course of Furan 2 and 2 courses of Kanaplex - and I’m not sure if I should continue

When you say two doses of Kanaplex is that dosed over two days? Also watch the ammonia/nitrite levels in the hospital tank.
Pat

[Demosthenes]

Perhaps continue with this



When you say two doses of Kanaplex is that dosed over two days? Also watch the ammonia/nitrite levels in the hospital tank.
Pat

Hi Pat,

The instructions for Kanaplex were to dose once then wait 2 days, and repeat up to 3 times. I followed this for 6 days, doing water changes in between doses. I ran out of Kanaplex, but more is coming in the mail tomorrow.

I've seen in other threads that Kanaplex is pretty conservative as far as dosing. Since the first course didn't help, should I increase the dosage with this next round? The fish seems like it's on its way out honestly.... so this is a hail mary.

As far as watching out for ammonia and nitrite - yes, thanks for the reminder. There is no food or poop going into the tank, so I don't think there should be crazy spikes. I also have salt in the tank to mitigate this.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[jeep]

As far as watching out for ammonia and nitrite - yes, thanks for the reminder. There is no food or poop going into the tank, so I don't think there should be crazy spikes. I also have salt in the tank to mitigate this

How much salt? This can be a good stress reliever when dosed properly.

[Demosthenes]

How much salt? This can be a good stress reliever when dosed properly.

About 2 tablespoons in 15 gallons. Neither the salt measurement nor the gallons in the tank are exact here, I just eyeballed it.

[fljones3]

About 2 tablespoons in 15 gallons. Neither the salt measurement nor the gallons in the tank are exact here, I just eyeballed it.

My understanding is that a "medicinal" portion of salt is 1 tablespoon per gallon.

[Demosthenes]

My understanding is that a "medicinal" portion of salt is 1 tablespoon per gallon.

I've seen a lot of different recommendations for dosing. I'm seeing 1tbsp/10gals recommended for stress relief, which is all I was really going for with the salt. Is that not accurate?

[Tuterosso]

i using 100g on 100L when start treatment and redose after WC, non ionized salt and magnesium salt is awesome