Quarantine hero fish

[Stanica]

Hello. I will be getting some new discus from a reputable source shortly. Eventually, I will mix these discus with my existing discus from another reputable source. I intend to follow the recommended quarantine time. Also, I understand it’s recommended that you introduce one of your “old” discus to the new discus and leave it in the quarantine tank and monitor for any issues. Now for my question. I have a smaller tank with a few stunted discus (from lfs before knowing better). Can I use one of these guys as the hero fish or do I need to use a discus from the show tank the new discus will eventually go in? Thank you very much!

[Pices]

The hero fish is one from the new batch that you put in with the old fish. This idea is to expose one of the new guys to the cooties of the old guys. If he makes it for 6 weeks without getting sick, the others can go in. It prevents you from losing all the new fish. Discus from different sources have been exposed to different things in their environments and developed immunities to different things.
You only want to use fish that are going to share a tank eventually. It wouldn’t make sense to use your lfs stunted discus unless they are going to share a tank. I hope that makes sense.
Patty

[Filip]

Hi and welcome Stanica .
Patty is right with her advice. You test the pathogen resistance and immunity among the groups that are about to be mixed together . First month of the QT is reserved for ensuring good accommodation , good health and appetite of your new commers, and the second month (2-3 weeks at least )is used to ensure compatibility between the two groups that are about to be mixed .
And you always do the hero discus test to the less desirable group , to prevent your favorite group from problems.

Since this is your first post I would love to see photos of the 3 groups of discus you have and info about their suppliers.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hmmm, I thought you were suppose to add a hero fish from the old group to the new group in the QT. Easy to treat in a QT should there be an issue. This is from Al's Quarantine thread post #88 http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...uestions/page6.

Hi all,
Just saw this and thought I would update. I do much of what I always have done.. though I do tailor it a bit different depending on the condition the fish come in...

For those interested..I had done several Discus Disease and Health Presentations over the years... The following are from a few pages of that presentation. HTH, al

Suggested Quarantine Procedures...
Receive fish: Place into a clean tank with aged (well aerated/pH stable warm water (85-87F). Use a well cycled bio filter.
Week One: Many Frequent water changes, observe fish behavior, and treat for anything specifically noted******. Be sure all fish are eating well and passing normal feces.
Week Two: Prophylactic deworming with Praziquantel for tape worms, several days latter deworm with general dewormer (levamisole) added to water as 24 hour bath
Week Three: Repeat Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Four: Let rest, nothing but water changes.
Week Five: Re-dose with Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Six: Quarantine is over if the fish are looking healthy and eating well and are not to be mixed with existing stock. If these are to be mixed with existing stock..add least favorite of existing stock (aka Test fish) to new fishes stock.
Week Six-Week Eight: Observe new stock and test fish. If all is well, most likely safe to mix all fish.
**** important note

Quarantine Common Sense:
Maintain complete separation of new stock from existing livestock.
Use separate nets, hoses, buckets, and siphons for each quarantine tank.
Separate rooms are much safer than in room quarantines.
Perform all maintenance on new stock’s quarantine tank after you are done with all existing tanks.
Wash hands and arms thoroughly after working in tanks.
Maintain optimum water quality, less stress means healthier fish
Tank should have a fully cycled bio-filter. Quarantining a group of fish is not the time to be cycling a tank!!!
Be vigilant… catching and treating a problem early on is better than latter when it may be harder or impossible to treat.

Brews Top 11 Discus Health Issues
1. Chemical Poisoning: Chlorine, Chloramine, ammonia, nitrite, heavy metals (ex. copper and iron), Medications. Suggested treatment…clean water and lots of it!
2. Dissolved gases: Low dissolved oxygen or high dissolved C02/nitrogen etc. Suggested treatment ...age and aerate water.
3. Improper Shipping and Handling Techniques: Suggested treatment…prophylactic screening of suppliers and buying only from reputable ones.
4. Improper care of Discus at Vendor’s Shop: Suggested treatment…prophylactic screening of suppliers and buying from reputable ones.
5. Well meaning but inappropriate or inaccurate advice. Suggested course of action…Check references…information abounds in the internet and pet shops, both good and bad info.
Improper care of Discus on the part of the hobbyist. To keep any fish, a basic knowledge of species requirements and needs exists…Discus require a bit more than basic knowledge. Suggested treatment…Learn as much as you can!!
7. Poor Tank Hygiene Syndrome: Suggested treatment….Be less stingy with the water changes and maintenance.
8. “Charlie Brown Christmas Tree Syndrome” A fish that is sickly or poor quality when you buy it isn’t going to miraculously turn into a beautiful specimen. Suggestion..start with obviously healthy stock, not obviously sickly or low grade stock.
9. Hobbyist Mediated Pandemic: Occurs when a hobbyist recklessly acquires many specimens in a short period of time from multiple sources…mixing these together with existing stock then leads to Immune Overload..aka..sick fish. Suggested treatment….Learn patience and adhere to a sound Quarantine plan!!
10. Nutritional deficiencies…Largely unknown how this affects Discus specifically.. But what we do know is that every animal needs an adequate diet.. Suggestion…feed a varied diet to your discus of quality foods.

And finally…… Number 11!!!!


11. Gill flukes, external and internal protozoans, nematodes, bacterial infections, viruses, “plagues”etc…..

Why is this one listed last in a talk about Discus Diseases and health you may ask?…

Because! If you pay attention to the first 10 conditions mentioned you may not even need to worry about number 11! A healthy fish that has all its needs taken care of and is not stressed has an innate advantage when dealing with diseases and illness..

[Stanica]

Pat - I have to admit, I am a little confused because I also read Al’s post about the hero fish. I only purchased two new discus to eventually add to my ninety gallon tank, so I would prefer to put one of my older discus in with the two new guys instead of testing by putting a new discus in with my discus already in my ninety. I hope I’m not being too confusing. I do enjoy all my discus, so it would be hard to choose a hero fish. I’m just going to cross my fingers and hope they all land up happily living together eventually. Thank you for your help.

[jeep]

I always place new arrivals in a separate room (to prevent airborne cross contamination) and use separate tools for maintenance. Once the QT period is complete, my new fish are introduced to the same room as existing stock and the same tools and routine are used. This way, all my fish have been exposed to each other. When I have additional new arrivals, I repeat the QT process and any discus from the existing stock can be used as a sacrificial lamb (not a hero because it's not its choice )

[Filip]

And you always do the hero discus test to the less desirable group , to prevent your favorite group from problems.

If this statement caused confusion Stanica , what I meant to say is that if it was the other way around (2 discus in display and 6 new discus in QT ) it would be wiser to risk and test your old batch in display tank with 3 discus and protect your new batch of 5 discus .

But in your case it's perfectly normal to test the 2 newcomers in the QT .

[Stanica]

Excellent. Thank you guys. Have a great day!

[brewmaster15]

Just to explain my procedure as outlined above. Generally the hero fish should come from your existing stock. The reasoning is you have had your old stock awhile and most likely know it to be healthy. You most likely have not had any recent major issues, and most iikely the old stocks immune system is functioning as it should. Generally a hobbyists will also have more existing stock than new stock coming in, so the chance of a major wipe out of your existing stock is greater if you take the new stock and add it to the old.

The new stocks history is unknown to you. You do not know what they have been exposed to, nor do you know exactly where they came from (unless hobby bred) You may buy them from a reputable importer, but where did their supplier really get them? Who knows? If you buy them at a LFS, these get fish in weekly in most cases and could easily bring something into their discus and then to you. The new fish will also be in many cases handled alot, shipping damage to slime coat and stressed from all the transport and water differences. They are potentially all ready for the perfect storm.

So from my perspective the best way to see if the new fish are a threat to my Discus collection, is the keep them separate and let heal a good 6 weeks, then take my least favorite fish of my existing stock and add it to the new stock and then wait and see a few weeks.

Its what works for me, Its obviously not foolproof, but its definitely the safest method we have today that I know of.

hth,
al

[discuspaul]

Very well explained, Al - I fully agree.

[Stanica]

Just to explain my procedure as outlined above. Generally the hero fish should come from your existing stock. The reasoning is you have had your old stock awhile and most likely know it to be healthy. You most likely have not had any recent major issues, and most iikely the old stocks immune system is functioning as it should. Generally a hobbyists will also have more existing stock than new stock coming in, so the chance of a major wipe out of your existing stock is greater if you take the new stock and add it to the old.

The new stocks history is unknown to you. You do not know what they have been exposed to, nor do you know exactly where they came from (unless hobby bred) You may buy them from a reputable importer, but where did their supplier really get them? Who knows? If you buy them at a LFS, these get fish in weekly in most cases and could easily bring something into their discus and then to you. The new fish will also be in many cases handled alot, shipping damage to slime coat and stressed from all the transport and water differences. They are potentially all ready for the perfect storm.

So from my perspective the best way to see if the new fish are a threat to my Discus collection, is the keep them separate and let heal a good 6 weeks, then take my least favorite fish of my existing stock and add it to the new stock and then wait and see a few weeks.

Its what works for me, Its obviously not foolproof, but its definitely the safest method we have today that I know of.

hth,
al

Thank you for your detailed explanation Al. My new fish arrived from Uncle Sam’s Discus this morning. They are stunning - love them.

I have been reading Simply Discus for over a year. Last night was the first time I had the courage to post a question and I’m glad it did. Have a good day.

P.S. i’ve ordered your FDBW twice recently. Very nice quality - my guys love them.

[brewmaster15]

Thank you for your detailed explanation Al. My new fish arrived from Uncle Sam’s Discus this morning. They are stunning - love them.

I have been reading Simply Discus for over a year. Last night was the first time I had the courage to post a question and I’m glad it did. Have a good day.

P.S. i’ve ordered your FDBW twice recently. Very nice quality - my guys love them.

Glad you are posting!!!!!!!!!!Don't be shy about it !Best way to learn is to interact with others here.

al

ps..
very happy you like the Food! Thank you!

[Pices]

I’m sorry I confused you Stanica. I had it backwards. In my defense when I did it I was adding my new group from Kenny’s Discus to some dither fish from my lfs. I wasn’t worried about losing dither fish so I only exposed 1 discus to the dithers. Thanks for straightening out my mistake Pat and Al.
I received new fish today too (invertebrates). Congrats on your new bunch. Look forward to seeing pics of them. Again, my apologies for giving you bad advice.
Patty

[brewmaster15]

I’m sorry I confused you Stanica. I had it backwards. In my defense when I did it I was adding my new group from Kenny’s Discus to some dither fish from my lfs. I wasn’t worried about losing dither fish so I only exposed 1 discus to the dithers. Thanks for straightening out my mistake Pat and Al.
I received new fish today too (invertebrates). Congrats on your new bunch. Look forward to seeing pics of them. Again, my apologies for giving you bad advice.
Patty

Patty it wasn't bad advice.. I can think of cases where one would do as you suggested thats why I clarified why I do what I do.

al

[Pices]

Thanks Al