Unknown issue... losing fish

[DocJoe]

1. One fish at a time starts whirling and flashing around the tank.
Ive lost 3 fish already in the last week...only one at a time seems to be doing this.

I do have a microscope, but not sure what to swipe and look for. advice on this would be much appreciated.


2. Fish darts, and whirls... almost seems like a neurologic degeneration type issue. They eat fine until they start the darting and whirling, then they die within 2 days. 4th fish in a week started last night. All the other fish appear normal and have healthy appetites.


3. Haven't done anything except salt for now



Tank/Water

4. 110 gallon tank 13 discus ranging from 6" to 3"

5. 30% -50% water change daily

6. BB tank has been running for 2 years now


7. I do not age my water. I use prime with every water change.

8. Parameters and water source;


- temp __84-86___

- ph __7.8-8.0___

- ammonia reading __0.0__

- nitrite reading _0.0___

- nitrate reading _10-20___


- well water ____

- municipal water _XX___

- RO water ____


9. Nothing new added in 8 months


10. Beefheart mix small feeding 1-2x/day and Hans flake 1-2 x/day


11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Altum Nut]

Hello Docjoe...your unknown issue has stumped many Discus hobbyist over the years and really difficult to pin-point the specific cause.
Many first look at water source and quality. Since you don't age you tap have you noticed if micro bubbles are infested on Discus body which may irritate them and causing the darting. Another thing that comes to mind is possible leaking voltage from a faulty water pump or even heater causing the darting.
Darting fish into tank ornaments or glass pane can potentially kill them.
Another thought is parasites. Raising temps for a period of 3 days or so is worth a try without directly resorting to wormer meds.
Wish I had something more to offer.

...Ralph

[samurai.cichlid]

i hate to say it because i have no evidence to support it so, i make this post very hesitantly and hope it's taken with more than a grain of salt and that it's not a time waster.

but two things jumped out from your description.

1. that it seemed almost neurological
2. that you were using prime

some years ago i was using safe (so not quite prime, but close) and i had used too much of the stuff for whatever reason. i didn't worry about it because i'd overdosed other dechlorinators in the past with no issues. anyway, so i had no discus in the tank, just random community fish and some of them had a similar reaction to what you're describing.

it happened immediately with the water change. i switched back to i think aquasafe it was and never had the problem again.

anyway, probably unrelated and not the issue but i felt like i should share just in case. i'm loathe to contribute when i'm so unsure, so it is what it is.

[DocJoe]

Altum Nut,
Thank you for your reply. I devised a simple sponge system about a year ago that I run my water through to eliminate any micro-bubbles. I turned my heat up a bit and we'll try that for a few days.

Samurai,
Very interesting comment about Prime.. The thought never crossed my mind that the cause might be something along those lines. Did my water change this morning without any Prime to see if there is any changes that I notice

thanks guys,

Doc

[jeep]

I've never had an issue with Prime, even at 5x dosage...

Watch them closely if not treating your water, if you have chloramines, you will have to neutralize it...

Can you test your ph from tap vs. tank ph after several hours?

[DocJoe]

jeep,
thank you for the reply. I will test tap v tank pH tonight when I get home.

Doc

[Tuterosso]

make WC 50% every 3 days

[DocJoe]

Two more fish have succumb to this mysterious illness.
pH has remained very stable

I'm at a loss for what to do do next.

Doc

[Pices]

Sorry Doc Joe,
I wish I knew what to tell you, but it sounds like you’re doing everything right. To go from 2 years without problems to losing 5 in a weeks time is terrible. I’ve never had an issue with Prime either and wouldn’t do a wc without it. Do you have any pictures of the remaining discus?
Patty

[Paul Sabucchi]

Only time I had issues with whirling was when I was feeding mussells as 50% of their diet. Even if precooked and blanched maybe still had sime active thiaminase?

[DxM]

Try enrofloxacin, but not in these funny doses.

1000mg per 100l first day
2 day 50% water changer and 500mg enro, and continue to 8 day. 50% water change and 500mg enro.
Aquarium without additional filtration, only glass, heater and aerator. Control the pH (range 6-7 is correct) and adjust if necessary - after adding the drug goes up.
I've been using this method since 2013.
It also works on wild discus

[Alight]

Whirling Disease

Try doing a search on "Whirling Disease"

There is a good thread on this problem there.

[DxM]

If you have a microscope, look inside the poop:
55590193_2354391614838663_6640333113962528768_n.jpg
This is the Clostridium bacteria found in the wild fish. the same can be found in stendker fish.
These bacteria produce ammonia and cause intoxication in the middle of the fish. So the fish is tearing from the inside.
Additionally, flagellates open the way for these bacteria.

[Alight]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...irling-Disease

Lots of info on this kind of disease in this thread

[Filip]

The last time I had whirling issues I realised that they were water related irritation coming from too big and frequent WCs with unaged water .
I've stopped feeding and waterchanging for a week and darkened the tank on an advice from a discus keeper that honestly sounded really odd to me at that time . The problem was solved after that week and never reoccurred but I ve significantly slowed down on big WCs with unaged water from that point on .

If you conclude that it's not a water related iritation i suggest you start medicating with above described antibiotic practices.

Good luck and please share your practices and results with us here .