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Thread: Struggling with Fry

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    Default Struggling with Fry

    DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


    Problem

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

    So I've had these fry for about two weeks. It seemed like it was too easy the first week. After that its been a struggle. They are about 2 inches long currently. Some of them have grown noticeably, some not so much. About a week ago one of them would turn dark for awhile and then a few hours later seem fine. Then the next day another one would turn dark, then seem fine. It seem the severity of these episodes was increasing slowly. Then yesterday one started to swim with his nose on the bottom in a tight circle. This morning he was real bad, real dark and swimming erratically and trying to jump out of the water. I did a 95% water change but he didnt get better he died this after noon. The tank was slightly dirtier than usual this morning, I had fed some finely chopped fdbw last night and the water was a little cloudy from that this morning. I was due for a waterchange, but I've been doing 2 water changes per day and my last was only about 14 hours before he was trying to jump out of the tank.

    One of the other fry that has been having some issues turning dark and clamping also has had some of his tail fin tip turn white, the next day the white part had been nipped off. All of the other fishes fins seem fine.


    2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

    turning dark, clamped fins, erratic swimming, rapid breathing, head standing, white tip on 1 tailfin which was possibly rotted away or nipped off the next day.


    3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

    have reduced feeding somewhat in hopes it will increase water quality



    Tank/Water

    4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

    10-1= 9 fry left. 2 inches long


    5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

    80% - 95% twice per day


    6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

    Two weeks, Bare bottom.


    7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

    Age for 12-24 hours with airstone, PH swing is 0 - 0.2


    8. Parameters and water source;

    Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


    - temp __84.4F___

    - ph ___8.0__

    - ammonia reading _0.0_

    - nitrite reading __0.0__

    - nitrate reading _0___

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    - well water ____

    - municipal water __100%__

    - RO water ____


    9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

    New tank sterilized two weeks ago and setup with only these fry


    10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

    Beefheart flakes, FDBW, Tropical Discus Granules D-50 Baby, AL's Discus Chow 1mm

    I mix it up during the day, maybe about 6 small feedings.

    First pic and video is of the the one that died, a few hours before he died.

    IMG_20190313_114813.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Quality on this video is poor for some reason, but you can see his behavior before he died:

    https://youtu.be/aw2EH-6qbUE


    If you change quality to HD in seetings, you can see better, Video of fry one week ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy0-j--YgIY
    Last edited by guggas; 03-13-2019 at 06:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Hi Ryan. What kind of filtration do you have? Did you cycle the tank?

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Its just a sponge filter. I did not cycle the tank, but I have a sponge that was shipped with the fish. I have not detected any ammonia in testing. Also I was thinking the heavy WChanges would make it not an issue. More pics from just now.

    IMG_20190313_173309.jpg

    IMG_20190313_173253.jpg
    Last edited by guggas; 03-13-2019 at 06:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    How big is the tank? Or did I miss that? You should show Nitrates with a cycled filter. Try cutting back on the water changes to 50% per day and see if there's a change. Also, try adding about 3TBS salt per gallon for a few days. I experienced some issues early on when I got my challenge fish and they rebounded immediately after cutting back on the water changes.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    its a 40b with about 30 gallons of water in it. So..3 tablespoons per gallon, or 3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons? 9 Tablespoons added for now. I'll hold off on water changes and test for nitrates.
    Last edited by guggas; 03-13-2019 at 07:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Ryan,
    Measure your nitrites just before your water change..
    Id start there... your posted values seem off.... 0 nitrates is not likely unless theres no biofilter.

    Al
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>We really could use your support. Please DONATE HERE Thanks!


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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Ryan,
    Measure your nitrites just before your water change..
    Id start there... your posted values seem off.... 0 nitrates is not likely unless theres no biofilter.

    Al
    Ok, yall caught me. I havnt actually tested nitrates, I didnt think it would be necessary with 150 - 180% WC per day. I've only tested ammonia and nitrite. I'll keep an eye on it.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Quote Originally Posted by guggas View Post
    its a 40b with about 30 gallons of water in it. So..3 tablespoons per gallon, or 3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons? 9 Tablespoons added for now. I'll hold off on water changes and test for nitrates.
    Wow sorry, good catch! 3 per 10!

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    After about 20 hours with no water change im showing some nitrates, looks like 5ppm but could be more, the 5, 10 and 20 on the chart all look the same to me, but its definately showing some nitrates and it wasn't yesterday. Currently 0.0 Nitrite, and I think I can see a tad bit of ammonia on the test. I tested fresh water out of my barrel and water out of the tank side by side for ammonia, and i think i can see a slight amount more of green in the tank water, but not solidly to the 0.25 mark. So I would say 0-0.25 ammonia. Still have the 3 tablespoons of salt per 10 gals in there and one of the fry is struggling the others seem fine.

    edit: waited 4 more hours before doing a water change. At that point I had a solid 5-10 ppm Nitrate and a solid 0.25ppm ammonia. Did a 60% WC
    Last edited by guggas; 03-14-2019 at 09:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    So it seems my filter is only processing some, but not all of the ammonia. I would have liked to try only doing 50% WC per day as Jeep recommended, but it seems like thats not an option due to the ammonia. I've been doing about 80% WC the last two days and feeding only sparingly, but I've lost 3 more fish over the last two days. I'm thinking maybe I should go to 80% in the morning and 50% in the evening. I'm not sure what else I can do with them. I thought maybe there is something either in my water or somehow im contaminating the water before it reaches my tank. Attached is my water quality report. Do you see anything problematic in it?

    https://www.aquaamerica.com/WaterQua.../TX1700665.pdf
    Last edited by guggas; 03-16-2019 at 12:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Ryan,
    Sorry you are having issues here. Looking at whats happening I can't help but feel that your main problem is the tanks not cycled for the volume of ammonia the fish are making. I'm not sure your Nitrite test is accurate.. 99% of the time if you are detecting ammonia, theres a problem with both ammonia and Nitrites. I would maintain 1 tablespoon salt per 1 gal water concentration and would treat the tank with Methylene Blue. Even a small amount of Nitrite being present can be a problem.


    What water treatment are you using? Prime would be a good suggestion.


    Al
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    >>>>>We really could use your support. Please DONATE HERE Thanks!


    Al Sabetta
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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Ryan,
    Sorry you are having issues here. Looking at whats happening I can't help but feel that your main problem is the tanks not cycled for the volume of ammonia the fish are making. I'm not sure your Nitrite test is accurate.. 99% of the time if you are detecting ammonia, theres a problem with both ammonia and Nitrites. I would maintain 1 tablespoon salt per 1 gal water concentration and would treat the tank with Methylene Blue. Even a small amount of Nitrite being present can be a problem.


    What water treatment are you using? Prime would be a good suggestion.


    Al
    Thank you for the help. Yes I'm using prime at 1.5x recommended dose.

    Ok, I'll up the salt to 1 tablespoon per gallon. I just tested nitrites again with the API kit and still showing zero, maybe my test kit is bad, it is a couple years old. Question about the meth blue, I have the Jehmco 2.303% solution, the bottle mentions 1 tsp per ten gallons, does that sound correct? Also I'm under the impression meth blue will kill BB, is it going to set my cycle back to zero? Should I move the filter sponge out while the fish are in the meth blue?

    IMG_20190316_161920.jpg

    edit: was not too keen on staining my 40b so I moved them to a 20 gallon, with clean water, they are at 1 tsp per 10 galls meth blue and 1 Tablespoon per gallon salt. Just a heater and airstone for now, no filter. They seem pretty relaxed and look like blue scorpions.
    Last edited by guggas; 03-16-2019 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    The dose should work.. Meth blue can impair your biofilter so its a catch 22.It detoxes nitrites in the fish... so is beneficial when your biofilter is having trouble. You could pull the filter while treating with mb and then put it back. You probably would only need it for 2 days..Just be sure to do your water changes and replace the salt. From what I have read the nitrites would be removed from the fish in about 2-3 days if you didnt add mb.. The salt should prevent further uptake of nitrites while the filter catches up.
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>We really could use your support. Please DONATE HERE Thanks!


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    Default Re: Struggling with Fry

    The fish seem to have stabilized in the salt and meth blue. They are no longer dropping like flies and are getting better. I have 6 left, hopefully they recover and turn out ok. It's been a learning experience for sure. Maybe I rinsed out the sponge to much when I received it, and probably should have been checking parameters more carefully. I thought I would be fine with the major water changes whatever the case, I guess not. I'm feeding the filter sponge ammonia in a separate tank in hopes it builds up a little.

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