Using hydrogen peroxide to hatch discus eggs

[Alight]

This note is for breeders who have had success in the past, but now find that few if any eggs hatch. I tried several other methods that did work. Including potassium permanganate, and acriflavine that worked well, and methylene blue that did not work well, but found that all of these were very messy and stained tanks, surfaces, and me. Hydrogen peroxide leaves no mess at all.


Using hydrogen peroxide (HP) for hatching discus eggs.

I started using this when eggs were laid and looked like they might hatch, but very few and mostly none hatchet. I attribute this to a very aggressive egg fungus that is ubiquitous in my tanks and very difficult to remove, and almost impossible to get rid of entirely. The hatching problem has cleared up in the past when I quit keeping discus for a while, and then went back to it. The problem always re-accured after several successful hatchings, and was maintained for as long as I had Discus.
To overcome this I now use hydrogen peroxide. I use a 10 gallon tank for hatching the eggs. To do this I start by filling the 10 gallon tank with RO water straight from my RO holding tank. I have also used water from my RO conditioning tank that I use to mineralize to the proper level for the different ages of discus I have. This also works, but not quite as well as the straight RO water.
I have used RO water that I mineralized to 35 tds, and to 28 tds and to 7 tds. All of these worked, but for some of the parents, the 7 tds (which is what comes directly out of my RO unit) worked best.

https://www.blubonic.com/product-pag...rogen-peroxide

The link above is where I got the hydrogen peroxide. You will only need 8 fluid ounces of this as it will last a long time. I strongly suggest you get your hydrogen peroxide from this vender as cheaper brands may have additives, or not be the real thing. 35 % HP is very caustic and will burn you badly if it gets on your skin. It can also cause blindness if it gets your eyes, so be careful. It is not hard to handle if you use a pipette. I like pipettes that have markings on them that let you know how many mL you have in the pipette. I use the pipette to suck up the HP and put the proper amount in the 10 gallon tank I use for hatching.
For a 10 gallon tank, I use 1 mL hydrogen peroxide just before or just after I put the cone with the eggs on it into the tank. I also use another mL of the HP 24 hours later. If the tank the eggs came from is highly infested, you could use another 1 mL 12 hours after the 24 hour treatment. Too much HP on the day of hatching will cause the eggs to fall off the cone.
I try to take the eggs away from the parents as soon as the pair has quit making runs, and are fanning the eggs. However, hatching still seems good if the eggs are collected hours later.
You can take the cone with eggs on it straight out of the tank and put it into the 10 gallon tank. Turn off the aerator in the 10 gallon tank when you put the cone with the eggs in the tank to keep the eggs from falling off the cone.
In the ten gallon tank, I have a heater on the bottom of the tank, and a single aerator made from tubing that has a diffuser on it to make small bubbles.
I keep the tubing in place using a heater clamp. I adjust the bubbles so they are very close to, but to not touch the eggs.
When the eggs hatch, you can put the cone with the eggs on it into a screen that keeps parents from eating the eggs. I make the screening using gutter guard. I put the cone inside the screening right into the 10 gallon tank using water from the 10 gallon tank. It takes some practice to do this without losing some hatched fry that are on the cone. You must keep the cone submerged at all times or it is possible that the hatched fry will float away. Taking the cone out of the 10 gallon tank and putting in into a small container is also difficult, because you must put the container into the 10 gallon tank, and get the cone into the container all under water. Once in the container, because the cone already has the screen on it, the whole container can be lowered into the parent’s tank.
Now you can just worry about the parents taking care of the fry. It will be 3 days after they hatch before they swim out from the screened cone. When they do swim out, the patents ether try to spit them back onto the cone, or try to move them into a group on to a filter or other object in the tank. Very often, the fry will be very hard to see, and you may think they are gone, but they are just well hidden.

The hatch rate is very high using this method, usually at least 90%.

You can also raise the fry in the tank with the parents. However, there are problems with this as well. The HP will kill your bio-filter. You can prevent this my removing the filter until the eggs hatch and then you can change all of the water and put the filter back in, but this will lead to ammonia buildup that can cause problems with the fry. You will have to use much more HP, because the parents’ tank will be much more contaminated with the fungus. This may cause the fry to fall off the cone, if too much HP is used. Also, the hatch rate is usually less because of the fungus and or the ammonia.

[Alight]

4-again-of-the-8.jpg55-babies-from-large-gold-male-with-checker-board-female-bright-red-and-white.jpgLarge-very-bright-female.jpg

The blues are grow outs using the HP method. The fry are recent babies using the method, and the checker board is the mother of the babies.

[Alight]

Look two posts below this to see the method used for the hydrogen peroxide. I could not edit it to make this be the first you would see. Sorry!

Al Light

[brewmaster15]

Al,
Im not surprised you are finding it effective. Currently formalin or hydrogen peroxide are the two chemicals used commercially in hatcheries to prevent fungus from attacking eggs. These are the two methods approved by the FDA.

Interestingly it looks like copper sulfate will soon be added to the list.


https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2017/feb/fungus/

Im not a huge fan of copper sulfate in discus tanks though.

Thanks for the write up on your experiences with Hydrogen peroxide.

Al

[bluelagoon]

Hi and nice looking discus.I learned thing new today;thanks.I found this when I googled.https://agrilifecdn.tamu.edu/fisheri...quaculture.pdf

[brewmaster15]

Mervin,
I'd say with Canada's recent changes to medication access for hobbyists that this is something well worth looking into and reporting on here.

al

[brewmaster15]

One note on using Hydrogen peroxide. It can linger days in the tank. Even the weaker 3% over the counter one we use to neutralize Potassium Permanganate, (PP) I have found it stays days Since its colorless, you have no way of knowing if its there, so I would suggest having PP on hand. It won't help you determine how much hydrogen Peroxide is in the tank, but if theres any, the PP will quickly go from purple to brown.

al

[Alight]

I must admit that I did know about the FDA reports. I did not include this because I was concentrating on how a hobbyist could use HP in an inexpensive way. I am at a University with a lot of research being done using zebra fish (not for the fish, but to come up with insights about how human diseases are caused) which gives me more info on this topic than most can easily find.

Al Light

[Alight]

It may be the HP you used had stabilizers in it that made it last so long. This is one reason for the source I mentioned. I tried 3% HP from the store but found that when I used the same dose as with the 35%, the HP was not degraded much and that as the eggs hatched, the fry fell off the cone, and died. I attributed this to stabilizers but have not proved it. However, the time HP will last is also depending on the amount of oxidizeable dirt ect in your tank. It will last much less time in a dirty tank. You can also look at how much HP is in your water by using your ammonia test kit, as it will turn a darker grayish color than you will ever get with ammonia. As I indicated, I don't like using HP in the tank with the parents. I have not seem any problems with the adults, but it can definitely kill your bio-filter. I certainly recommend at least a 90% water change after the eggs have hatched.

[Alight]

One more thing, here is a link for the pipettes that have a marker for the amounts of HP needed. You get 20 for 8 dollars or less. https://www.amazon.com/Measure-Maste...23488414&psc=1

[Megalodon]

The FDA recommendations are limited to what they believe is safe for use in food fish. Malachite green isn't allowed even though it's the most effective.

If you're not selling discus as food then I'd stick with MG.

[Mugwump]

..Odd...I use Hp for hatching angel fry.....I pull the spawn to a 2 1/2 gal. tank..I then add 1 1/2 caps of 3% HP..it's my understanding is that it dissipates in about 12 hrs....so after 12hrs I dose just one cap...angel fry are wiggles at near 48hrs...so dosage is stopped before then to rid any HP......you can dose a few drops a water change if you want..

I get great rate/swim rates....done it for years...

[Alight]

I actually got some of the info from a ram site. Rams, like discus seem to have greater susceptibility to the fungus. The more susceptibility the more HP needed. I raised Angles years ago and they had much less trouble with the fungus than Rams. I think Discus may be the worst for this. I keep seeing posts from discus owners that their discus eggs don't hatch, and turn white quickly. The blame is often put on the male not being fertile. I thought the same, but once I started treating for the fungus (see the first part of this tread for the other treatments I tried) I realized it was the fungus not the fish. I like HP best of all the treatments because it doesn't stain anything, and is not expensive, and will evaporate over time.

It takes much more than the amounts of HP you used for my Discus. I started with 3% but it did not work at all. Even very high levels of 3% did not help, it just made all of the eggs fall off the cone. Of course, all of this depends on your water and the sensitivity of the fish you have.

I found the sweet spot about 3 years ago and now my only problem is that I have only enough tank space for two batches at a time growing, them out to 2.5 to 3 inches before I sell them . Which means that most of the time, I just leave the eggs with the parents, which means they never hatch because I don't use the HP. The eggs just turn white, and the parents leave them or eat them. I guess that's better than having to throw out tons of fry all of the time.

[Mugwump]

I actually got some of the info from a ram site. Rams, like discus seem to have greater susceptibility to the fungus. The more susceptibility the more HP needed. I raised Angles years ago and they had much less trouble with the fungus than Rams. I think Discus may be the worst for this. I keep seeing posts from discus owners that their discus eggs don't hatch, and turn white quickly. The blame is often put on the male not being fertile. I thought the same, but once I started treating for the fungus (see the first part of this tread for the other treatments I tried) I realized it was the fungus not the fish. I like HP best of all the treatments because it doesn't stain anything, and is not expensive, and will evaporate over time.

It takes much more than the amounts of HP you used for my Discus. I started with 3% but it did not work at all. Even very high levels of 3% did not help, it just made all of the eggs fall off the cone. Of course, all of this depends on your water and the sensitivity of the fish you have.

I found the sweet spot about 3 years ago and now my only problem is that I have only enough tank space for two batches at a time growing, them out to 2.5 to 3 inches before I sell them . Which means that most of the time, I just leave the eggs with the parents, which means they never hatch because I don't use the HP. The eggs just turn white, and the parents leave them or eat them. I guess that's better than having to throw out tons of fry all of the time.

...I start the hatch out tank with just plain tap water..no dechlor...the chlorine dissipates in 24hrs/less...and it helps ward off bacteria albeit temporarily.....are discus spawns to sensitive for trying this...?

[Alight]

One important factor for discus hatching is the hardness of the water. The softer the better. So if your tap water is more than 100 ppm, (calcium tds more than 100) that would be a bigger problem.

I actually don't think that bacteria are a major problem, at least not for me. I don't know how sensitive discus eggs are to chlorine. I guess it would depend on the concentration of the chlorine. These days, Chloramine, not chorine is what is in tap water. It does not dissipate as fast as chorine, so I would check to be sure that it is really gone in 24 hours.