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Thread: Cause for concern?

  1. #1
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    Default Cause for concern?

    DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


    Problem

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

    After an extended vacation (no waterchanges) I noticed ragged fins. After upping the w/c back to normal I treated with kanaplex however. This solved the issue however one discus fins became ragged again.

    2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

    Always been the runt, darker and picked on, still eats, bickers, and has a full belly after eating but his head is starting to get pinched

    3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
    Kanaplex used according to seachem instructions dosed four times every third day, this cleared up the fins on everyone else (it may also have been the return to normal w/c schedule) but not this guy.


    Tank/Water

    4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
    90 planted with 29 gallon sump. 8 adult (2+ year old)

    5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
    30% twice a week

    6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
    2.5 years, sand bottom, planted


    7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
    No swing but mix tape and ro so that is heated and aged for two days between w/c

    8. Parameters and water source;

    Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


    - temp ___27.5 c__

    - ph ___7.4__

    - ammonia reading _0

    - nitrite reading _0___

    - nitrate reading __20__

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    - well water ____

    - municipal water ___1 part_

    - RO water _3 parts___


    9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
    No new fish, plants or inverts added

    10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
    Mysis shrimp, NLS pellets, northfin krill gold, repashy gel food. The sick guy only eats the krill gold and mysis shrimp


    11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/pTaSe4s4qHDYLW4G7

    Photos are here. As I was photographing him I noticed the poop from the turq, is that white stringy feces or is that intestine lining shedding?

  3. #3
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    James,
    It looks like a protozoan issue starting. Probably stress induced by a weakened immune system. If you have a hospital tank, I would put it in there and give it some TLC , possibly treat with Metronidazole. You really don't want it shedding parasites into your tank..

    al
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    I've been feeding Repashy food and he pecks at it while all the other discus love it. Can I dose both Metronidazole 500 mg/10 gallon in the water and 10mg/g in the gel food?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Also while I wait for the Metro and Kusuri Womer Plus to ship I came across a couple interesting articles.

    1. Spironucleus Vortens is often the cause of Hex

    2. Feeding with 3% MgSO4 spiked feed cured a Spironucleus/intestinal feed in rainbow trout: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4502860/

    Has anyone used or had success with this? Obviously Metro is going in as soon as it arrives but I figure it would be pretty innocuous to use epsom salt soaked pellets while I wait.

  6. #6
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Also while I wait for the Metro and Kusuri Womer Plus to ship I came across a couple interesting articles.

    1. Spironucleus Vortens is often the cause of Hex

    2. Feeding with 3% MgSO4 spiked feed cured a Spironucleus/intestinal feed in rainbow trout: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4502860/

    Has anyone used or had success with this? Obviously Metro is going in as soon as it arrives but I figure it would be pretty innocuous to use epsom salt soaked pellets while I wait.
    James,
    have a read here.. its an older article...

    http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...hexamita.shtml


    but it gives you dosing amounts in the food. generally the food is more effective if the fish is eating. I don't see any reason why you can't add to both water and food. People have dosed insanely high amounts and reported no issues.. My target in the water is 500 mgs /10 gal for 10 days... Thats worked best for me in the past,

    On the epsom salt, its been kicked around in the past here, and often times people will use epsom in conjunction with metro or a deworm to expel parasites in the digestive track due to its laxative action. So it may help here for you. Its limited though in actual treatment as often times in Discus by the time you see signs of it, its invaded organs and tissues.

    hth,
    al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 04-09-2019 at 10:12 AM.
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
    Simplydiscus LLC Owner
    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  7. #7
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    I want to add that the nitrates in your tank are way too high. I keep my nitrates at 5. I suggest that you up your water changes.
    Mama Bear

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    My two month old daughter limits the amount of WC's I can do, I've stepped up to 30% every second day. I'll do what I can thanks for the advice Liz. I am dosing KNO3 for plant growth so perhaps that plays a part in my high reading.

  9. #9
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    I see no reason why you would be adding ferts to that set up. From what I see in the pics there is not enough foliage and WC's to be adding more nitrates. The WC's that you're doing should keep the nitrates up far enough for that many plants. 30% WC is too low every other day for domesticated discus. That means your leaving a lot of dirty water behind each time and over time the water picks up lots of unwanted metabolic waste/ bacteria (a soap of things). Plus you didn't mention how many times a week you clean your substrate. If you were doing that routine for 2.5 years ,you did good to keep them alive this long.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Thanks Mervin, I know I should be changing more water but I don't have the time/space/spouse buy in to accommodate that, so I do the best I can.

    The dosing is to keep the carpet I'm establishing from dying. It works. I couldn't establish a carpet (I tried three times, same species, same source) until I started dosing ferts and now I have a rapidly expanding carpet. To me that says I do need dosing for what I want to achieve. Maybe I can try omitting the KNO3 to get the same effect while lowering nitrates. I've been doing this WC routine for 2 years (added ferts around September) and grew them from the smallest option that Discus Hans offers in the same tank with the same routine with nitrates never higher than 20 ppm. I lost one to a jump out and another during a prolonged family medical emergency. The current sick guy has always been the smallest and constantly at the bottom of the pecking order. He's still eating which I take to be a good sign so I'm going to do the best I can with what I can manage.

    Update:

    While waiting for the Metro from AngelFins I prepped some 3% epsom salt with Repashy Spawn n Grow and the turq who had the suspect poop is now pumping out fat black/brown poops. I updated the link above with a pic of his poop and a couple other brown logs coming out
    When it arrives I'll be dosing both repashy (10mg/g) and the water column (500mg/10 gallon each day) with Metro until this guy turns the corner.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Metro arrived on Friday. I started water dosing (500 mg/10 gallon) and made up repashy with 10mg/g of food. On Sunday the small sick guy has progressed from only eating flake to taking Northfin Krill Gold out of the water column and is actively recognizing the pellets and chasing them as opposed to somewhat listless pecking. I'm taking this as a good sign!

    Plan is to continue feeding medicated repashy and water column dosing for a total of 10 days and re-evaluate. I'm not counting chickens too early but I am hopeful that this guy is on his way back.

  12. #12
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    I'd bet a nickle that he's on his way back to perfect health.
    Mama Bear

  13. #13
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Fingers crossed for you James. Please keep updating.

    Thanks,
    Al
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
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    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    I'd bet a nickle that he's on his way back to perfect health.
    I'm not sure if I should be offended or thankful for your bet!! Only a nickel!?! Thanks for the support Liz!

  15. #15
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cause for concern?

    Be thankful. I'm not much of a betting woman. If you really want to make it a bet I'll bet 5 bucks but if you accepted you would be betting against yourself.
    Mama Bear

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