AquaticSuppliers.com     Golden State Discus

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

  1. #1
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    114

    Default Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    I have been browsing this forum for a while. Reading through the knowledge and the science behind how many of you approach keeping Discus is worth it's weight in gold to me. I feel as though, with some more reading and perhaps a few more questions I can hit the proverbial ground running so to speak. But there is one thing I don't quite understand despite reading through a lot of arguments both for and against. And that's why?

    Why are people against planted setups for discus?

    And I know that to some that may seem like the newbiest of newbie questions. But as a newbie to the species the argument seems so entrenched that the reasoning/founding issue is lost in and amongst the fray. It's possible I've read the reasoning and didn't understand it at the time and perhaps there is a link or two I've missed. But from the outside (until recently of course) looking in, the actual core issue seems buried yet at the same time vital. And so I figured I'd ask for a definitive explanation of the issue.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    MVP Oct.2015 discuspaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Surrey, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    3,871

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Simple - the more 'things' you have in your tank of discus (particularly as a beginner) - e.g. décor, driftwood, other tank-mates, and in particular - PLANTS - the more difficult it is, and becomes, to keep the tank squeaky clean, and free of any unwelcome spots for wastes & debris to collect, amass, and fester, thereby providing a multitude of breeding grounds for the development of undesirable bacteria, among other harmful pathogens.

    This environment (e.g. a planted set-up) creates a situation where ideal water quality and conditions are very difficult to achieve with any degree of consistency, especially where large, daily infusions of fresh water seldom receive priority attention.

    This is why the highly recommended approach to starting into discus-keeping is a bare-bottom tank - obviously so extremely easy to keep sparkling clean with very little effort - that's the secret to discus-keeping success !

    Hope you get the picture.

    And Apologies Rolla, for neglecting to welcome you to Simply - Here's hoping you learn, enjoy, and succeed at keeping discus.
    Last edited by discuspaul; 05-06-2019 at 09:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered Member pastry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Hey Rolla! I'm a planted discus tank-bubba but will be first to side with BB as best method. I 100% agree with Paul! It's just my choice to do planted and although I strongly feel that bare bottom yields healthier, bigger, more vibrant, and longer lifespan discus... I choose to go against the grain because I love Driftwood and plants and how The discus maneuver. I just try to constantly improve different things to increase the health of my discus while still having a planted tank. I definitely know I can still improve my rate of water changes, I believe I need to switch to a sump once I move to another house rather than have a canister, I said raise little ones in a bare bottom and then transfer them to my show tank, the diet I feed them I think could be better, and so on and so forth. Regardless, I truly believe that if I did the exact same thing with a good number of fish from the same spawn but in a bare bottom tank then the bare bottom group would be noticeably better. Best I can do is try to narrow back Gap. I don't see anything wrong with planted tanks although that might contradict everything I just said. I love seeing more planted tanks so that maybe other folks May come up with great ideas to help close that Gap I mentioned.
    -Elliot

  4. #4
    Registered Member kilnakorr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    166
    Real Name
    Casper

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Most have already been said.
    When you think about plants and discus you want two things together that has opposite needs.
    Discus loves clean water and plants need nutrients.
    Putting these in same tank is a complex and neverending balancingen act.
    Experience with both planted tanks and discus is a must if you want to go down this path, and it's still alot of work!

  5. #5
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Halifax,Canada
    Posts
    2,498
    Real Name
    Mervin

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    And you really need to do even more substrate cleaning; old plant parts do decay and make even more waste. More work. That can be rather difficult in a planted tank, especially around the roots.

  6. #6
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Northford,CT,USA
    Posts
    26,830

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Rolla its very cool to have you here reading and posting. Welcome!

    Its not so much that discus and planted tanks are mutually exclusive but its really got a lot to with your goals and experiences. Discus do look great in a planted tank even if they dont really come from an environment thats loaded with aquatic plants.

    For me, best bet for novices is go bare bottom, learn the fish care thats specific to discus and then once they are older and done growing if you want to add plants have at it...but even then keep it simple. Driftwood and plants tied to it is a great compromise as is potted plants.

    Of course if you are a skilled aquatic plant person you may be able to accelerate the learning curve and find a happy compromise between your plants and Discus.We have a bunch of members that have done this.

    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 05-07-2019 at 06:56 PM.
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
    Simplydiscus LLC Owner
    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  7. #7
    Registered Member farebox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    932
    Real Name
    Roland E. Wilson

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    I've done this tank with substrate for an planted tank and only keep it that way for only a few weeks. Personally like the ease of maintaining an bare bottom tank for my fish, so that's way I go this way. Done some plants in pots and will kept it this way. Check video of my tank and form your own option you may want to go for your fish. https://youtu.be/qOhx0CbnH7w

  8. #8
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Aussie living in Cincy
    Posts
    3,218
    Real Name
    Daniel

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?


  9. #9
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Hey guys and Gals.

    I really appreciate the feedback here. I've been in the hobby for years. I Graduated from a uncycled goldfish setup to a High Tech planted tank over time and so, perhaps to my detriment, I'm starting out with plants suited to Discus temps. I think that instead of removing the plants I might first try a different type of scape that doesn't allow or easily lend itself to mulm/detritus settling and allowing bacs to thrive. Again I really appreciate the feedback on this one. It's also awesome to be talking to you.

  10. #10
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Macedonia-Europe
    Posts
    3,639
    Real Name
    Filip

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolla P View Post
    Hey guys and Gals.

    I really appreciate the feedback here. I've been in the hobby for years. I Graduated from a uncycled goldfish setup to a High Tech planted tank over time and so, perhaps to my detriment, I'm starting out with plants suited to Discus temps. I think that instead of removing the plants I might first try a different type of scape that doesn't allow or easily lend itself to mulm/detritus settling and allowing bacs to thrive. Again I really appreciate the feedback on this one. It's also awesome to be talking to you.
    Give it at least a couple of months to graduate in discus first just like you did with the planted tanks , before you start combining them both .
    You'll be one step ahead of the game if you do that first .

  11. #11
    Registered Member pastry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post

    Of course if you are a skilled aquatic plant person you may be able to accelerate the learning curve and find a happy compromise between your plants and Discus.We have a bunch of members that have done this.

    Al
    I am NOT one of those members Al described! Paul, Al, and others have given you a really good understanding of the pros and cons. And I agree with all of them! My advice would be, pour a glass of wine on a Friday night and read the heck out of planted tanks and bare bottom tank threads. There are a lot of threads from current and past members who have documented very well their outcomes.

    Sooo... pour the wine and start reading! After that, post questions that you did not find the answers to. Warning, all of us have seen many of the questions that can be answered by reading. If you post a question that
    we all know you can easily find Within umpteen number of solid threads, you will be less likely to receive feedback. So far you are doing great though!
    -Elliot

  12. #12

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    That is also my question discus come from the amazon along with close to 3,000 other species but everyone seems to make a big deal about discus, do daily water changes, bare bottom, no plants, tetras come from the same waters and whose changing their water every day, discus have plants in nature, and whose draining the amazon every day and wiping down the sides of the bank. Dee

  13. #13
    Registered Member pastry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Dee, I used to think the same way. Two things though:

    1. Discus (IMO) look even more majestic when hitting max growth. (Remember though, I'm a planted tank guy... I'm sure mine could be much bigger if in a bare bottom).

    2. I've noticed other species (from not just Amazon but anywhere) get bigger and more brilliant when kept to the standards that discus keepers follow. Not as noticeable with smaller species (e.g., smaller tetras). The Amazon is an ecosystem (and water changing machine!) That we cannot match. Well there are aquatic plants within it, most of the plants you see are really submerged plants, shrubs, and trees that are used to being on dry land and make it through the wet season submerged. I still like using plants due to color contrast.
    -Elliot

  14. #14
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,136
    Real Name
    Willie

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    I'm one of those bare bottom guys. After butting heads many, many times, I've come to realize it's really a matter of your objective. I see three objectives for discus keepers:

    #1. Nice community tank with plants and substrate. (Not an authentic discus biotope, but I accept people just want to have a nice looking tank.)
    #2. Specimen tank. No compromise, just the best looking fish.
    #3. Breeding tank. No compromise. Maximize the chance for spawn to survive.

    We all started with #1. I've done #3. Now I just focus on #2. Great food, heavy water changes, cull ruthlessly. It's a beauty contest and only the best get to stay. Obviously that doesn't work if the objective is either #1 or #3.

    If your focus is #1, just understand that it's a compromise. The tank conditions will be suboptimal for both discus, other fish and the plants. Having said that, there are lots of things going for #1. Usually the spouse doesn't complain. You also get total freedom to add whatever you want to the tank. Finally, discus coloration is deepened with foliage in the background. But you will not achieve #2 or #3. As long as the focus is clear, you'll be successful. Some people expect to achieve all three objectives. We call these people newbies.

    So good luck on whichever approach you choose to take, Willie

    P.S. Discus fry will not survive in anything but a bare bottom tank. That's the real mistake most new hobbyists make.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  15. #15
    Registered Member pastry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Can someone "define" the argument against planted tanks?

    Love this!

    "... it's really a matter of your objective"
    -Elliot

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Cafepress