Something is wrong with big tank: Fish very scared/darting/barely eating

[Heartbreaker]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Something is going on in my big tank. My fish scare very easily and are darting around to the point of panic; They are not eating much.
(See end for in-depth)


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
I don't see any symptoms other than the not eating much, darting around the tank with movements and acting very scared
(See end for in-depth)


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Flubendazole (1/8 tsp per gallon)
Levamisole (2 mgs per 1 liter)


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
Big tank = 116 gal, since 2015, 5 fish 6+" (initially)
Quarantine tank = 30 gal, aged 1 week, 6 newer fish between 4"-6"


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
Water changes about 25% every 2-3 weeks
FilStar XP XL filter - change every 4-6 months (except Bio)


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Been running since 2015. Aquarium sand 3" deep. Large pieces of driftwood.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Water not aged. ph is stable


8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.
- temp 84 F

- ph 7.8-8.4

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 0


What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- municipal water X
Water is tap treated with Seachem prime. Have been doing this since before 2015.



9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Switched. 6 New fish in big aquarium/2 Older in quarantine.
(See end for in-depth)


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
I feed them 1 cube of freeze-dried blackworms (mixed with spinach) 2xday



11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

Here's a more in-depth background for those who care to read through. Apologies for being so long, but just wanted to give as much info as possible:


About a month ago, I had 5 Discus in my big tank (116 gal). The tank consists of aquarium sand, Malaysian Trump Snails (MTS), and driftwood only. I've had these discus since 2015 and for the most part, everything was well.

Side Note: I decided to get 6 more discus. I placed them in a quarantine tank, which I quarantine for 6 weeks prior to introduction to the big tank dosing with Flubendazole (week 2) and Levamisole (24-hour dip weeks 3,4, 6) and observation. These fish were very healthy. When I put food in the tank, they would tear at it like little piranhas (they'd even nip my finger, which was kinda cute). They would follow me wherever I was in the room. Just amazing little guys.

Meanwhile, back in the Big tank, during the six weeks the newer fish are in quarantine, one of the Discus gets much bigger than the rest and starts to become very aggressive and bullies all of them, especially to one in particular. It harassed the poor guy to emaciation and jagged fins (or so I think). Anyhow, this is when I noticed how timid they majority of them were. I assumed it was the aggressive one, so I separated him with an egg crate divider in the same tank. The others started coming out more, but still very timid. That's when I noticed they weren't eating much. I couldn't save the harassed one. Then, the bully died suddenly out of nowhere. I was thinking it was a parasite that got into my big tank somehow (no idea how since nothing new had been introduced to the tank in years) so I treated it with Flubendazole. This, unfortunately killed all my MTS (wrote about this in another thread) and didn't end up helping.

Since I was nearing the quarantine with the newer 6 discus, I introduced the older (2 now left) into the quarantine tank to see how they all were together. Sure enough, the older ones started acting more like the newer ones.

So I decided to make a 100% water change in the big tank, then added all the fish, old and new, into the big tank. But then after a day, I noticed they were ALL acting like the previous occupants. Very finicky, and not eating much.

So just to experiment, I removed only the old ones back into the quarantine tank (essentially, I switched them)... well... they are nowhere near as fearful as before. However, the newer ones, now in the bog tank, are just so scared and finicky. Some of them will go up to the food (extremely cautiously). Some eat while others act as if they are going to eat it, then back off. Have tried a variety of food, but there's no way it's that. Any discus I've even gotten love the freeze-dried black worms I buy from here.

[alron2]

The first thing I would do is test my water. It could be either your filter bacteria is too small or you have harmed it. I would do 50% water changes daily and see if that helps. I always try massive water changes before adding medicine; cheaper and safer.
Ron

[Cove Beach]

Also check for stray voltage in the tank. Suspects- heaters, submersed pumps, it could be that simple. Either swap out units or use a volt meter, one probe to an outlet ground (round prong) and the other probe in the water. If the voltage is high enough you may even feel it yourself.

[14Discus]

Also check for stray voltage in the tank. Suspects- heaters, submersed pumps, it could be that simple. Either swap out units or use a volt meter, one probe to an outlet ground (round prong) and the other probe in the water. If the voltage is high enough you may even feel it yourself.

Good point......I was going to suggest the same thing. Had it happen w my Koi years ago.

[LizStreithorst]

You are not changing near enough water. Have you read around in the beginners section? Also, your parameter reading's can't possibly be correct. Are you certain you tested them with a reliable test kit?

[danotaylor]

If 0 nitrate is correct you have no bio filter especially if your only changing 25% every 2-3 weeks. Something is off with your readings for sure. It is hard to know what is going on until you sort out your test readings but start with a daily 75% water change and get them into some fresh water for sure

[Heartbreaker]

I used to have the API tube tester but ended up throwing it out. This time I used Tetra EasyStrips our of convenience (and wanting to get an answer asap) Starting the daily water changes immediately.
Any suggestions on more reliable testers?

[danotaylor]

API master kit is what I use. Just has to be in date that's all. They're only good for a yr or so and each bottle has a used by date on it.

[danotaylor]

API master kit is what I use. Just has to be in date that's all. They're only good for a yr or so and each bottle has a used by date on it.

You didn't say how long you left the 2 you added to the QT tank to see how they would do together...the hero fish method requires another 4-6 weeks of observation...it seems from the outcome that there was indeed a pathogen present in the big tank, perhaps the other 2 survivors were immune...how often were you doing wc's in the QT tank? If more freq than the big tank perhaps the 2 just liked the cleaner water in the QT tank...

[LizStreithorst]

API is the best. A lot of men are somewhat color blind and often don't realize it. If you had trouble telling the difference between the colors, take a sample to your LFS. They generally test water free of charge. The strips are worthless.

[Heartbreaker]

The first thing I would do is test my water. It could be either your filter bacteria is too small or you have harmed it. I would do 50% water changes daily and see if that helps. I always try massive water changes before adding medicine; cheaper and safer.
Ron

Crap, thought I mentioned that in my long paragraph explanation, but yeah, I've been doing 50% water changes everyday but this only started last Saturday since the new fish were added. I'll keep doing it, of course, but is there an amount of time when I should start seeing improvements?

Also check for stray voltage in the tank. Suspects- heaters, submersed pumps, it could be that simple. Either swap out units or use a volt meter, one probe to an outlet ground (round prong) and the other probe in the water. If the voltage is high enough you may even feel it yourself.

Sounds really interesting. Didn't even know this was a thing. I have a Fluval heater and a wave maker just to keep the water moving a little. I'll have to figure out how to use a voltage meter. Is there an amount I should be looking for or any voltage at all is bad? And did you mean one like this: https://amzn.to/2VvAngi

API is the best. A lot of men are somewhat color blind and often don't realize it. If you had trouble telling the difference between the colors, take a sample to your LFS. They generally test water free of charge. The strips are worthless.

LOL. I have always thought that, but never had true confirmation. Only reason I even bought the things was my LFS only had the strips & I wanted test ASAP so answer the questionnaire and post here immediately. I'll get a master kit today as well.

... I just want to make sure these little guys are ok. Been years since I had issues and didn't know what it was, so that's what's really having me bugged out.

[Cove Beach]

You could either borrow, or buy a meter but it may be cheaper and faster to swap out a new heater and see if things improve. The bonus to that method is if it isn’t the heater you will have a backup for down the road. The power head can just be unplugged to see if they settle down.

[pastry]

just wanted to chime in and really emphasize that everything I have seen Liz suggest, those were my exact thoughts. Even if your routine had been good for a long time, it's almost like a ticking time bomb. Try to do add a minimum two to three 70% water changes a week. Also in at it no, I don't know how it is where you are but here in South Carolina in the spring when we get periods of rain then sometimes the water companies think it's cool to add extra crap to our tap water. That's why I always keep a school of cheap tetras with my fish since they are my little canaries. As soon as I see you one Tetra bite the dust then I know something's up after a water change

[LizStreithorst]

Very wise of you, Elliot.

[Heartbreaker]

Very wise of you, Elliot.

Ok so I got the API Master test kit results and they are as follows:

pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0 ppm (bright yellow)
Nitrite: 0 ppm (light blue)
Nitrate: 0 ppm (Canary Yellow)

.. I have been doing 25% water changes in the AM and in the PM since last Monday (treating the water with SeaChem Prime & Cycle Concentrated Bio Booster).