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Thread: Water changes almost 0%

  1. #16
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    Ron if you click on the link it opens up a short comment about how Alex filters his water. Basically he has a solid waste removal section and then there is an RO type unit that returns 80% of his water back into the system. Not sure how practical it is for the hobbyist but would greatly reduce water costs for big production no doubt

  2. #17
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    You've nailed it, Daniel. It's way easier for me to just keep changing water. Hard to believe that the guy built such a complex system for the few tanks he has.
    Mama Bear

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    You've nailed it, Daniel. It's way easier for me to just keep changing water. Hard to believe that the guy built such a complex system for the few tanks he has.
    Totally agree with you Liz

    I will just ask myself. Am I going to drink the water come out from the wastewater treatment plant where I lived. Everyone know the answer. Would you do the same thing to your discus?

  4. #19
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I would drink what he had from that water treatment plant. He built it himself. Beside, where I live my water comes from a deep aquifer. I am happy to drink the water straight from my tap. I'd even be happy do do WC straight from the tap but I can't. I have a .4 pH swing.
    Mama Bear

  5. #20
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Hard to believe that the guy built such a complex system for the few tanks he has.
    I know right Liz...people do crazy things!

  6. #21
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    My assessment of Alex Piwowarski's website is that he puts a lot of young discus together for his pictures and his videos. Nothing wrong with that. He produces spectacular pictures and earns a lot of views. I'm skeptical that those are real grow out tanks. There's simply would not be any way for every juvenile to get adequate food.

    As for grow outs, 25+ years of experience says water changes are absolutely critical. Every other breeder in Asia and Europe rely on water changes, not because they like to spend money or do a lot of work. I'ts simply what is necessary.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  7. #22
    Registered Member slicksta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I can't think of an efficient way to remove solid waste from a system but if he has it is plausible.
    I would think that solid waste makes up about 80% of the fish waste and if you were to remove it expeditiously, you've just reduced your bioload by that much and then equally your water changes.
    Maybe he has developed discus diapers :-P

  8. #23
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I've had many friends who challenge me on large water changes. Their point is that 50% - 70% a day is probably enough to remove all waste. I don't have data to think it's one or the other. I do think, however, large water changes also keep the bacterial population down - which I think is important.

    I say that because discus evolved in water with very low bacterial levels. Bacteria do not grow on medium with pH < 5.0. Their almost unique evolution to producing slime for the spawn is, I believe, because there's not enough other sources of food for the fry. I have a livebearer/pleco tank covered with mulm, even though the water is crystal clear. But my sense is that discus just do not thrive in a heavy bioload. Again zero data here, but that's what a forum is for!

    If a water treatment system is combined with UV sterilization, then I think it could work.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  9. #24
    Registered Member slicksta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I agree. . . But then another solution would be solid waste removal and maintaining a low pH

  10. #25
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I wonder if he uses a buffer/minerals after going through all those RO membranes to keep the ph and minerals up a bit.

  11. #26
    Registered Member jawfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    From some facebook posting Alex Piwowarsky seems to have gone back to large water changes.... his website is terribly outdated when it come to his current set-up.

    I know there is a group of German discus keepers-breeders running systems with almost no water changes. Its based on large bio filters and a series of resins filters. They run a Nitrate resin column to filter out the nitrate and a cation resin plus anion resin columns to filter out the Sodium and Chloride rejects. These systems are complex as they need the monitor the PH drop associated with low hardness i.e. a byproduct of the Kati-Ani resins. You also want to monitor the conductivity to control the flow to tge Kati Ani resin columns.

    I've been following this for a couple of years. I've read some comments that fry/juvenile have a lower appetite. The systems altough interesting are expensive compared to what we are used to and will require recharging with some nasty chemicals. Also in N.A. you're on your own to build one of these resin base system.

  12. #27
    Registered Member slicksta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I don't see how any of that is easier or cheaper than water changes.
    At that point invest in solar heating of water or as I've seen at Discus Madness in NJ where he heats the room instead of the tanks

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    If I was doing a lot of water changes I would use a heat exchanger to heat the new water with the old...

  14. #29
    Registered Member slicksta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    I do that with my drip system.... In a diy way :-D
    I have 100' of the drip tubing sitting in a 55g drum of my waste water at the head of the setup.
    It was an after thought so some of my lines sections are not Insulated where they are snaked through the floor but it does take the edge off the cold tap water

  15. #30

    Default Re: Water changes almost 0%

    In the wild discus do not experience huge water changes, they originate from the amazon basin which is a huge blackwater pool wth very still waters and very little current, the huge water changes came about from the discus pioneer /farmers who upon keeping them in captivity and coming up with the brilliant idea to feed raw beef heart because they had nothing else were fouling there tanks so bad they had no choice but to do huge water changes

    Dee

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