devastated

[Doogy262]

I am absolutely devastated.After 1 1/2 years of bliss with everything going
great I purchased two more Discus to make 8 for my 90 gallon tank.
I have no room for quarantine but purchased these from a very reliable seller.
With in two days two of my largest fish began acting strangely.Hovering at the top or staying in one spot.
Both of these two now have a white substance growing on them and two others are acting different than normal.
My regular water change routine was 40% every other day and I am now doing every day.Treating with prazi pro and
metro,trying to raise temp to 86 normally it is 84.The pic is the best I can get so any help will be appreciated...

[Second Hand Pat]

My guess is your discus are shedding their slime coat. Please do not raise the temp if this is the case. Increase your water change amount to as high as possible and fill out this questionnaire http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lease-complete. Also add 2/3 tablespoon is salt per 10 gallon. I am moving your thread to the Emergency Room subforum.
Pat

[jeep]

I agree with Pat with temp at 82, except I would add more salt at about 7-8 TBS per 10g. Increase water changes to every day and as much as possible... at least 75% if possible with aged/heated water and replace salt that was removed during WC. Clean your maintenance tools that come in contact with this tank and avoid cross contamination with any other tanks you may have. If you don't see an improvement within the next 2 or 3, I would treat with Furan 2...

Try to get them into a BB tank because the issues causing this will live in the substrate.

They may look bad, but I think you will have success if you follow this routine

[LizStreithorst]

Excellent advice, Jeep.

[Doogy262]

Thanks everyone for the quick reply.It does look like they are shedding their slime coat.Just to be clear that would be about 60 tbs of salt is that right??? I have lowered the temp. and everything I use for this tank has always been for this tank only.Should I use the same amount of salt after each water change?The water is aged and heated to 82 degrees.Any idea what causes this??

[LizStreithorst]

If they were mine I'd use between 3 and 5 tablespoons salt per 10 gallons, but exactly how much is a hard call. Either remove the plants or put the fish in a BB tank during treatment. The salt will put a huge hurting on the plants, and if you have to use the Furan II later that will kill most of them. Only put in as much salt in as you take out with WC. As long as you use aged water, the more water you change, the better. Out with the bad. In with the good.

[Doogy262]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
one day ago some of them started hovering at the top and just not acting the same.Yesterday I noticed a white film coming off of them,nothing unusual happened


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Started with prazi pro but have been advised to try salt treatment just 1 day



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
90 gal,8 discus from 3 days to 2 years


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
40% every other day


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
2 years pool filter sand about 1 1/2 inches


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Water is aged and heated for about 2 days not sure about ph swing.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 84_____

- ph 7.2_____

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading 0____

- nitrate reading 10-20____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.


- well water ____

- municipal water Metro Detroit___

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Two new Discus added 3 days ago...


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
1 omega one flakes and spiralina mix
2 one cube of Al's ABW
3 Frozen beef heart mixed with spinach and occasional frozen blood worms
4 one more ABW



11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[LizStreithorst]

Your nitrate reading says that you are not doing enough WC. Once your fish get over this do 30% daily, or more. You need to get your nitrates down to 5.

I don't believe that the Prazi Pro is an effective treatment in this case. As I said in your first post, if the salt doesn't work, go to Furan II.

[Doogy262]

Thanks Liz,used prazi out of desperation,the nitrate readings are notoriously hard to get right.Not really sure but went high to be safe...Started salt treatment tonight and plan on 75% or more daily until this clears up keeping my fingers crossed...

[LizStreithorst]

I'll keep mine crossed with yours.

[Adam S]

If salt doesn't help on its own, I'd continue using it along with whatever medicine you decide to use. 16 TBS = 1 cup.

Discus can handle quite a bit of salt, so don't worry about harming them (though the plants may hate it).

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks, Adam. I was unsure about the salt dosage so I went conservative. (basically, I just took a guess). I know about antibiotics and meds for parasites but I'm clueless when it comes to salt. I had no idea about continuing the salt if Doogy had to result to antibiotics.

Even old Mama Bears can learn a new thing on Simply. This forum has more value to Discus people than most realize. Put us all together and we come close to making a scientist.

[jeep]

Discus can handle quite a bit of salt, so don't worry about harming them (though the plants may hate it).

Yes they can! It sounds frightening to use salt in the amount said here, but it's actually quite mild. I don't recommend using salt on a daily basis, but in situations like this it really helps with both the ailment and the fish's stress...

[brewmaster15]

Doogy,
Everyone gave you good advice here. You asked how this happens. Unfortunately Fish from different suppliers have been exposed to different bacterias and viruses and have antibodies that protect them.. just like humans do. When the two groups meet the immune system of one or the other or both is overwhelmed...

In your case the new fish could have looked perfectly healthy yet at one point been exposed to a pathogen.Their immune system keeps it in check which is whats supposed to happen. The fish that got sick had their immune system overwhelmed by this pathogen. This really is a prime example why Quarantine is so important.Next time around , even a rubber maid bin or garbage can be used as a makeshift Qt tank.

In this tanks its hard to tell if this is viral or bacterial but the white you see bacterial and slime coat and
and antibodies shedding... as the fish tries to get rid the bacteria..This is part of the defense mechanism. The salt helps promote this and reduces stress by making more sodium availible to the fish. FURAN 2 can help treat this but often salt, time,.and water changes are alls you need.

The dose of salt here may seem alot but isnt.. In most cases most plants will be okay with it in the short treatment duration.

For something like this you can also use salt dips.

I know theres been several salt doses mentioned here and any of them will help with stress and may help the fish deal with this.Take this with a grain of salt.. pun intended but 1 tablespoon per 1 gal water is what I use when treating something. Discus tolerate that no problem for 7-10 days. At this concentration some plants may not be happy.. they will grow back.
Do as many water changes as you can... replace salt taken out with water.

please note
When I say tablespoon ..i mean leveled off actual measuring spoon.

Hth,
Al

[jeep]

Ad FYI, salt is salt! Don't use LFS aquarium salt... It's a rip-off! I use Solar Salt form HD or Lowes at around $6 for 40lbs...