Discus is looking bad!

[Firecraca]

I just set up a 55 G bare-bottom tank that had previously been used for another freshwater setup. We cleaned it out with vinegar water solution and rinsed it. New discus quarantine tank upgraded from 30 G to this new 55 G. 100% water change upon transfer. All parameters maintained within one degree between tanks (85-86F, 2 dKh, 7.6 pH). 1 striped discus out of 8 juveniles was dark for the first 6 hours after transfer. After that he looked normal, and then we started to notice a white film growing on his fins and sides. He was acting strange, going back and forth across the tank, but still eating. Now he is back to being dark colored and fins appear to be disintegrating at the edges. Just did a 50% water change after skipping a change one day after the transfer. Feeding is still normal with all 8 discus. He is currently swimming with others but has all fins clamped.

Any ideas what could be going on with this little guy? Should I do another water change this evening of 75% w/ RODI water as I was planning? 0-1.jpg0.jpg

[jeep]

Hello and welcome to the forum!! Can you give us as much detail as possible please. Can you please go here and copy the form and fill out then paste it back here? Maybe we can get to the bottom of this issue soon...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lease-complete

[Firecraca]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Discus has turned dark and looks to have a white slime.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
turning dark, excess slime, poop is green to dark brown. Some of the other fish seem to have cloudy fins and one of the first discus has a white pimple on the side of the body.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Water changes only

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
55 gal 8 discus 3-4 inches and the rest are smaller

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% daily only one has been done since they transfered from a 30gal to the 55 gal 4 days. about to do another 50% change
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

4 days bare bottom cycled sponge filter 13inches deep 48 inches long 18 inches tall. fan heater and drift wood. bare minimum decor
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
no

8. Parameters and water source;
2dkh 7.6 ph cant test for other parameters 84.7 degrees
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __84,7___

- ph __7.6___

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water _x__35%_

- RO water _x___65%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

4 original 4 new in last week
10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

mysis shrimp blood worms beef heart. 3-4 times a day

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[jeep]

Thanks for providing the additional information! This is what I was looking for...

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

4 original 4 new in last week

Doing water changes with RODI is not necessary, but large water changes are very important at this time, since it appears you have a cross contamination issue cause by improper QT.

I recommend doing 75% (or more) daily water changes with aged and treated water. Also, add 1 TBS salt per gallon, and replace the salt being removed during the water change and back the heat down to 82. Do this for at least 10 days. I would really like to see your ammonia and nitrate levels. Can you pick up a test kit or take a sample to your LFS and have them test it for you? If you don't see an improvement within the first 2-3 days, I would treat the entire tank with Furan 2.

[LizStreithorst]

YOu should euthanize the fish in the picture. It is hopeless and is putting more pathogens into the water. You need to test your pH right out of the tap and after 24 hrs in a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone. If you can't afford a test kit, the pet stores often test tank water free of charge. We need to need know ammonia, nitrate, and nitrate. Do you add prime of other dechlorinator? Could you take a pic of the entire tank? I'd like to see the condition of the other fish.

[lpsouth1978]

YOu should euthanize the fish in the picture. It is hopeless and is putting more pathogens into the water. You need to test your pH right out of the tap and after 24 hrs in a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone. If you can't afford a test kit, the pet stores often test tank water free of charge. We need to need know ammonia, nitrate, and nitrate. Do you add prime of other dechlorinator? Could you take a pic of the entire tank? I'd like to see the condition of the other fish.

I may be pretty new to Discus, but not to keeping fish. IMO euthanizing the fish at this stage is a complete waste. Any pathogen that this fish has is already in the tank and the other fish are likely already infected (if it is indeed a pathogen and not just poor water conditions).

I agree with getting pictures of the entire tank and the other fish. I would also start doing larger water changes and GET TEST KITS IMMEDIATELY. There is no way for us to keep fish happy and healthy without testing the water they are in. If you have not tested the water, there is absolutely no way to know that you have a cycled filter and/or tank. You could be killing your fish due to ammonia toxicity because you "think" your tank is properly cycled. Adding prime will help to detox ammonia if that is a problem, but you need to find the underlying problem and fix it ASAP. I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but test kits are NOT a luxury, they are a NECESSITY!

If this is a pathogen of some sort, I can't be of much help. I do everything I can to avoid medicating a tank, so others will have to help with that. Good luck to you!

[Firecraca]

I use to have test kits that tested everything but now i only have dkh gkh and ph. I plan on getting more when I can afford it. Ill post pictures a soon as I can. The fish in the picture is looking worse but is still eating. Is a uv sterilizer a good idea or am I wasting $$? what kind of salt? Aquarium or epsom?

[LizStreithorst]

I'm sorry Fire, but I disagree with Ipsouth. The fish you pictured is emaciated and miserable. If you decide to try to save it put it in a 10 gallon by itself and treat with Levamasol and Furan II. Someone else like Al will have to tell you if you can use both together. If a fish eats but continues to loose weight it's full of worms, that's why I suggest worming. The white patch is a secondary bacterial infection which is why it needs the Furan II.

One thing that you can to is see whether or not you need to age your WC water. This is very important and very easy. Just get a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with tap water and check the pH. Then stick an air stone in the bucket, let it bubble over night and check the pH again. Please ask your local fish store if they will test your water parameters for free. I can't afford a test kit either so when I think I might have a problem I just take a water sample to my pet store where they test it for free.

In this case a UV filter is a waste of money.

[lpsouth1978]

I'm sorry Fire, but I disagree with Ipsouth. The fish you pictured is emaciated and miserable. If you decide to try to save it put it in a 10 gallon by itself and treat with Levamasol and Furan II. Someone else like Al will have to tell you if you can use both together. If a fish eats but continues to loose weight it's full of worms, that's why I suggest worming. The white patch is a secondary bacterial infection which is why it needs the Furan II.

One thing that you can to is see whether or not you need to age your WC water. This is very important and very easy. Just get a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with tap water and check the pH. Then stick an air stone in the bucket, let it bubble over night and check the pH again. Please ask your local fish store if they will test your water parameters for free. I can't afford a test kit either so when I think I might have a problem I just take a water sample to my pet store where they test it for free.

In this case a UV filter is a waste of money.

Nothing wrong with differing opinions. Ultimately it is up to the OP as to what to do with the sick fish. I fully agree with the UV sterilizer being a waste of money in this situation. Instead, use the money you would otherwise have spent on the UV and get some test kits. The API Master test kit is like $22 on Amazon.

[lpsouth1978]

I use to have test kits that tested everything but now i only have dkh gkh and ph. I plan on getting more when I can afford it. Ill post pictures a soon as I can. The fish in the picture is looking worse but is still eating. Is a uv sterilizer a good idea or am I wasting $$? what kind of salt? Aquarium or epsom?

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that plain old table salt works fine. The Iodine in table salt can actually benefit the fish in small amounts. You can also purchase aquarium salt (for freshwater, NOT reef salt). I don't think you want to use Epsom salt as it is a magnesium salt. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken.

[LizStreithorst]

Lyle, I'm the Mama Bear so I am plain spoken. I don't mind a difference of opinion either.

The problem is that the test kits don't have a long useful life. They go out of date by the next time you need them. That's why I like my LPS. They test water for folks all the time so their chemicals are always fresh. And it's FREE!

[jeep]

I use to have test kits that tested everything but now i only have dkh gkh and ph. I plan on getting more when I can afford it. Ill post pictures a soon as I can. The fish in the picture is looking worse but is still eating. Is a uv sterilizer a good idea or am I wasting $$? what kind of salt? Aquarium or epsom?

Like Liz said, most LFS will test your water for free. And just use regular salt, no additives. I buy Solar Salt from Home Depot for around $6 for 40lbs

[Firecraca]

What about not using ro/di water? Should I skip that process? It's getting expensive and i'm about to purchase everything I need. I'm buying test kit, cobalt 300w heater, ro/di system, and many other necessities. I've checked the pH in all my tanks and the pH is always 7.6. Is doing the 5gal bucket idea going to give me different results? What dosage of solar salt would I need for my 55 gal? We will get our water tested at the pet store and see what the results are (and buy our own as soon as we are able). I don't have another heater so I can't qt the sick one. What about a divider so that he/she is not picked on? The others chase it away from the group relentlessly.

Thank you all so much for all the help!! We only just got this little fella from the pet store, where he and his compadres were clearly not happy. Sadly, every pet store we have gotten our discus from were basically keeping them as a side-item in some random tank with a temp of 78 or less. I will try to post some pics that I just took.

[slicksta]

That fish looks as it's been sick for some time. When was the move to the 55g?
Can you post some pics of the rest of the fish

[Firecraca]

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