Discus is looking bad!

[slicksta]

I'll say this... You are assuming your filter is fine.
And if you don't test to know for sure, then you are still a newbie @13 years. Suggesting the use of a UV light as a remedy = newbie
Now you know why you are getting the suggestions that you are.
Good luck.

[Second Hand Pat]

Another thing about the filter is you added four new fish to the four you had so you doubled the bio-load. The filter needs time to catch up so you could easily have measurable ammonia/nitrites. The fin damages suggests ammonia is present to me.
Pat

[jeep]

I like the fact that you have come to this forum for assistance. Imagine the 100's of pieces of "advise" if you had posted this issue on FB, lol... We certainly don't want to treat an experience fish keeper as a newbie, but the fact is if someone is new to discus, there is much to learn that does not cross the standards of the every day hobby. The questions we ask are discus specific!

I recently saw where someone said they were experience, yet placed a UV light inside their tank and wondered why their discus all got sick and blind (that was a sad event).

The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus. I don't keep many other tropicals, but I've read that a level of 20+ nitrates is fine with many people. With discus it's crucial to keep nitrates <5, and even more crucial with young discus, which is why we do the water changes. And even trace amounts of ammonia can be lethal to discus, and even more so with juvies.

I also noticed the single sponge filter. While they are rated for a 125g tank, I use 3 of them in each of my 55g tanks.

Since discus have a slime coat, rather than scales, they are more prone to cross contamination, which is why we QT discus for up to 6 weeks. You said you added some about 2 weeks before this issue, but you didn't say if you QT'd them, but 2 weeks is usually about the time issues arise after adding new discus. Even if the new discus had no pathogens, it's quite possible your filter did have pathogens that the discus had not been exposed to.

We could go on and on talking about how unique discus are, but at this point I highly recommend keeping up with the routine you have begun. Once we get past this, we can work on the finer details

[slicksta]

Thanks jeep... Much more tactful than I :-)
But I do feel that medicating without trying to narrow down the cause is only delaying the inevitable and torturing the fish in the process.

[jeep]

I agree on the meds! Throwing meds without knowing what's going on is the worst thing anyone can do. Many people scoff at it, but this is why my first line of attack is always salt, lol...

[slicksta]

Salt & Water Changes / Water Changes & Salt

[Sturiosoma]

I like the fact that you have come to this forum for assistance. Imagine the 100's of pieces of "advise" if you had posted this issue on FB, lol... We certainly don't want to treat an experience fish keeper as a newbie, but the fact is if someone is new to discus, there is much to learn that does not cross the standards of the every day hobby. The questions we ask are discus specific!

I recently saw where someone said they were experience, yet placed a UV light inside their tank and wondered why their discus all got sick and blind (that was a sad event).

The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus. I don't keep many other tropicals, but I've read that a level of 20+ nitrates is fine with many people. With discus it's crucial to keep nitrates <5, and even more crucial with young discus, which is why we do the water changes. And even trace amounts of ammonia can be lethal to discus, and even more so with juvies.

I also noticed the single sponge filter. While they are rated for a 125g tank, I use 3 of them in each of my 55g tanks.

Since discus have a slime coat, rather than scales, they are more prone to cross contamination, which is why we QT discus for up to 6 weeks. You said you added some about 2 weeks before this issue, but you didn't say if you QT'd them, but 2 weeks is usually about the time issues arise after adding new discus. Even if the new discus had no pathogens, it's quite possible your filter did have pathogens that the discus had not been exposed to.

We could go on and on talking about how unique discus are, but at this point I highly recommend keeping up with the routine you have begun. Once we get past this, we can work on the finer details

I have a question, can you rate a sump in gallons per hour like you can a hang on filter and if so what would the gph on this 55gal with a 15 gal sump

Jeanne

[lpsouth1978]

....To clear up some confusion, Ive been in to the hobby of keeping freshwater for about 13 yrs and some of the questions people have asked seem to make me think that you believe I’m new to the hobby. I’m new to discus and I’m about 4-5 weeks strong....

Much like you, I have only had discus for about 5 weeks, but I have 25 years experience in keeping fish including saltwater reefs, planted tanks, and MANY freshwater. I can tell you that I spent months on this site reading, researching, and preparing for discus. The biggest thing I learned in all of this, is stability and cleanliness are key to success. As a result, I set up a semi-automatic water change routine (using RO/DI because I have a 400gpd system for my reef tank) that changes out 30 gallons a day (~18%). I test my nitrates a couple times a week, to ensure that the water changes are adequate. If I see nitrates rising, I do extra water changes to bring it back down. Typically this is not neccessary, but I have the option because I test regularly. I put MUCH more time and energy into this tank than any of my reef tanks. I have, so far, found that discus are not hard to keep, but require a serious commitment to keep them happy and health.

So, what is my point? Having years of experience with tropical fish is great, but it is not the same as having years of experience with Discus. I am pretty comfortable in saying that I have more experience with fishkeeping, overall, than many people on this forum. Yet, I learn something from the people here everyday. There is always more to learn and someone with more knowledge and experience than you. We are ALL here to learn and help each other.

You have been given lots of advice, ultimately it is up to you to decide what advice you follow and what you disregard. Just remember that none of us have any investment in your tank, we just want to see you succeed. So please don't get offended when people ask for basic information or come across as treating you like a "newbie". They are simply trying to help.

Finally, if you were to get nothing else from this entire thread these would be the top recommendations I have seen (in no particular order):

1. Water changes are your friend
2. Age your water - while all of your tanks may measure 7.6 pH, your water from the tap may not be.
3. Water changes are your friend
4. Test your water regularly - either yourself or at the LFS
5. Water changes are your friend

[eugenefish]

I like the fact that you have come to this forum for assistance. Imagine the 100's of pieces of "advise" if you had posted this issue on FB, lol... We certainly don't want to treat an experience fish keeper as a newbie, but the fact is if someone is new to discus, there is much to learn that does not cross the standards of the every day hobby. The questions we ask are discus specific!

I recently saw where someone said they were experience, yet placed a UV light inside their tank and wondered why their discus all got sick and blind (that was a sad event).

The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus. I don't keep many other tropicals, but I've read that a level of 20+ nitrates is fine with many people. With discus it's crucial to keep nitrates <5, and even more crucial with young discus, which is why we do the water changes. And even trace amounts of ammonia can be lethal to discus, and even more so with juvies.

I also noticed the single sponge filter. While they are rated for a 125g tank, I use 3 of them in each of my 55g tanks.

Since discus have a slime coat, rather than scales, they are more prone to cross contamination, which is why we QT discus for up to 6 weeks. You said you added some about 2 weeks before this issue, but you didn't say if you QT'd them, but 2 weeks is usually about the time issues arise after adding new discus. Even if the new discus had no pathogens, it's quite possible your filter did have pathogens that the discus had not been exposed to.

We could go on and on talking about how unique discus are, but at this point I highly recommend keeping up with the routine you have begun. Once we get past this, we can work on the finer details

I totally agree Jeep "The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus"

[eugenefish]

Much like you, I have only had discus for about 5 weeks, but I have 25 years experience in keeping fish including saltwater reefs, planted tanks, and MANY freshwater. I can tell you that I spent months on this site reading, researching, and preparing for discus. The biggest thing I learned in all of this, is stability and cleanliness are key to success. As a result, I set up a semi-automatic water change routine (using RO/DI because I have a 400gpd system for my reef tank) that changes out 30 gallons a day (~18%). I test my nitrates a couple times a week, to ensure that the water changes are adequate. If I see nitrates rising, I do extra water changes to bring it back down. Typically this is not neccessary, but I have the option because I test regularly. I put MUCH more time and energy into this tank than any of my reef tanks. I have, so far, found that discus are not hard to keep, but require a serious commitment to keep them happy and health.

So, what is my point? Having years of experience with tropical fish is great, but it is not the same as having years of experience with Discus. I am pretty comfortable in saying that I have more experience with fishkeeping, overall, than many people on this forum. Yet, I learn something from the people here everyday. There is always more to learn and someone with more knowledge and experience than you. We are ALL here to learn and help each other.

You have been given lots of advice, ultimately it is up to you to decide what advice you follow and what you disregard. Just remember that none of us have any investment in your tank, we just want to see you succeed. So please don't get offended when people ask for basic information or come across as treating you like a "newbie". They are simply trying to help.

Finally, if you were to get nothing else from this entire thread these would be the top recommendations I have seen (in no particular order):

1. Water changes are your friend
2. Age your water - while all of your tanks may measure 7.6 pH, your water from the tap may not be.
3. Water changes are your friend
4. Test your water regularly - either yourself or at the LFS
5. Water changes are your friend

Totally agree with you Lyle. Water change are your friend and for the discus. 99% of the problems/issues with discus can be prevented by daily water change.

[LizStreithorst]

Good post, Lyle.

[Firecraca]

I appreciate all the suggestions I have been given and all the interest this thread has received. I'm just of the opinion that if you don't know to use dechlorinator, you shouldn't be keeping fishtanks. By no means am I saying I know everything, or even most things about fishkeeping, especially when it comes to this advanced fish. I'm sorry if I come off as defensive or ungrateful, I just believe all aquarists, no matter how "experienced", are capable of making mistakes, and yes, dumb decisions. Like not having a test kit. With that said I will take everything into consideration, and continue with my current salt treatment and add furan 2 to the regimen if necessary. Will update. Thanks again!

[Firecraca]

Update on sick discus:

Last night I did a 90% water change and started my third day on the salt treatment.

Today my test kit arrived and after testing the water im happy to say that only my ammonia was above 0. level was in between 0 and .25 ppm.

Also tested my reservoir tank for ph swing and there is a slight swing .2 from a 7.4 tap to 7.6 aged water.

Sick discus is still kicking it, hope to save him/her. Noticed that I was feeding them too much and before my daily water change I noticed the fish were unhappy. Today I did a small feeding and the fish have maintained a happier behavior throughout the day.

Thnx again for all the suggestions. I would be one sad Discus owner without everyone.

I think I'll take out the old penguin 350, fill it with lava rock and use it as a second filter for this tank.

[Sturiosoma]

My thoughts on your tank I see your feeding raw beef heart, and while some people still use this as fish food, this is a very old you could almost say antique food that people used way back in the day before quality fish food came along and while it may be high in protein there is no quicker way to foul your tank than by putting red blood in your tank, that may explain your amonium issues if it were me I would eliminate that from my feeding regimen and replace with freeze dried blackworm or even live blackworm used sparingly, and your ph swings and I'm sure this is gonna go over good if you're getting a swing at 90% try cutting back a little to where you don't get a swing and finally on a 55gal I wouldn't hesitate to hang a aquaclear 110 filter running wide open on that tank after all water quality is what we're looking for I would maintain the salt treatment as prescribed but I think if you get your amonium and ph swing under control your fish health is going to improve, just my thoughts

Jeanne

[slicksta]

Monitor closely and stay on the aggressive water changes... a NITRITE spike is headed your way.
You may want to treat your water with Amquel or similar that tetoxifies the Ammonia but doesn't interfere with the filter cycling.
There maybe better products out there to help you cycle quickly