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Thread: Hello and a couple of questions

  1. #1
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Hello and a couple of questions

    Morning!

    I am a long time fishkeeper (Angelfish, livebearers, goldfish and bettas mostly along with my beloved newts!) and also worked in a specialist fish store for three years (a long time ago though), however we never dealt with Discus at the shop and before recently, I never really considered keeping them!

    I had plans to finally add a pond to my garden this year and get fully immersed in the world of Koi, which was my long term plan, however for various reasons that's not going to be a good idea, at least for a few years, and so no pond and no koi. I was very sad, and so my husband suggested I get a 75 gallon or perhaps larger. I have been researching what to keep, I was strongly thinking of SA cichlids, then I remembered the elusive and elite world of the Discus

    I have been slowly reading my way through the forum, but I did have a couple of questions. I am still not 100% sure if I will go with discus as it seems like the standards held are very, very high, but then I am not trying to grow out the most perfect show specimen (at least, not yet!) and am just trying to "wet my feet" at first. I am rather intimidated by the rules of Discus keeping, but I am also very intrigued and love it. I adore a big, immersive challenge and it seems like keeping discus may be the time sump/attention sucking hobby I am looking for!

    Edit: I should probably add that I am only allowed one big tank (We will see though!) and I have a 20 gallon with my newts and a few temperate species, a 20 gallon with betta sorority, and a temp tank with goldfish which will probably be rehomed now that I am not getting a pond. My husband's wish is for there to be no more than a 20 gallon and the 75/90 (and then any temp quarantine tank I need is ok).

    My initial questions are:

    It seems strongly recommended that babies are grown out in a bare bottom, non planted tank - however, would it be acceptable to have bare bottom with a few pieces of driftwood with java fern attached, to keep it looking a little more natural? I love a natural tank and the discus will eventually be hardscaped with driftwood, sand and stones in the bottom and a small amount of javafern. I really don't like the look of just a bare tank and it is going to be a showtank in my livingroom so I know the husband won't be too keen on an empty glass box.

    What age do you recommend they are strong enough to move into a more natural dressed tank?

    I will more than likely be setting up an RO system, just a basic one, as the water here can fluctuate heavily and the seemingly random chlorine content has killed a lot of friend's fish and my own despite treating. I don't see a lot of mention of RO water here (so far). Do people still use RO water for their Discus overall, or just those lucky people like me with dodgy water? I recall from my shop days, all Discus owners were very strict about the RO thing

    How friendly and interactive do Discus become? I am looking for a fish that I can sit and watch doing their own thing, exploring, interacting with each other - I don't need a fish that begs constantly and is flying around the glass waiting for feeding (I have my fancy goldfish for that!) But am looking for a fish that isn't too shy, but will do it's own thing without being overly stressed at being watched. Constantly. Because that's all I seem to do for stress relief these days!

    I would eventually really like to add other species to the tank too such as a pair of kribs, corys, maybe a small cichlid like the rainbow cichlid or a small group of geophagus. some scatterfish too. I am still reading through the forum but these all seem like species that have been successful with Discus. Would it be possible to introduce some corys and very young geophagus to the tank when the discus are still fairly young, but established?

    I hope I haven't repeated too many previous questions, and if I have, please feel free to point me at the right thread! I am still thoroughly reading through the forum, but was particularly interested in the question about adding wood and plants to a bb tank.

    Thanks everyone for your patience!
    Last edited by Pudmuppy; 06-16-2019 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hi and welcome to the forum Ally.
    It seems to me that the solution for the most issues you have addressed in your initial post would be to just buy half to fully grown 5-6 inch discus .
    That way you can have a nice and fully set up community tank for your living room and a happy hubby on top of it , right from the start .

    If you do decide to grow young discus then a couple of driftwoods with attached plants in a Barebottom wouldn't hurt the water quality if you do your regular maintenance and Waterchanges .

    Chlorine / Chloramines can be addressed with just adding Dechlorinator during WCs , so no real need for RO unit just to combat tap water chlorine.

    Discus are very friendly fish that always swim on the front glass . Although they have their own pecking order and pairing behaviour that is interesting to observe , I'm afraid everytime you approach the tank they will beg for food on the front glass no matter how well fed they are , just like your goldfish .

    And lastly I wouldn't recommend any other fish in their growth phase .You can add food competitors and other species once they get half to fully grown or at least 5 inch size .
    Good luck with your decisions Ally and I hope you will be able to make your koi Pond dream come true some day .

  3. #3
    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Most people use RO for certain wilds or for breeding purposes. What a lot of us do is age the water in a barrel, drum or trash can and add a heater and an air stone. This gases off some of the chlorine and prevents ph swings. It’s recommended to put some fresh water in a bucket and test the ph. Then test it 24 hrs later and if there is a ph difference of more than .2, you have a ph swing. If it’s the same or only changes a tad, then you can use tap water for water changes. Even though you gas off the chlorine, you still want to use a dechlorinator.
    Discus are a bit more work, but they are worth it and you just have to experience them to know why. I didn’t know what I was getting into when I started, and I’m glad I didn’t or I may not have taken on this fish that still has that somethin’ somethin’ years later.
    If the discus are happy, I’m happy

  4. #4
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Hi and welcome to the forum Ally.
    It seems to me that the solution for the most issues you have addressed in your initial post would be to just buy half to fully grown 5-6 inch discus .
    That way you can have a nice and fully set up community tank for your living room and a happy hubby on top of it , right from the start .

    If you do decide to grow young discus then a couple of driftwoods with attached plants in a Barebottom wouldn't hurt the water quality if you do your regular maintenance and Waterchanges .

    Chlorine / Chloramines can be addressed with just adding Dechlorinator during WCs , so no real need for RO unit just to combat tap water chlorine.

    Discus are very friendly fish that always swim on the front glass . Although they have their own pecking order and pairing behaviour that is interesting to observe , I'm afraid everytime you approach the tank they will beg for food on the front glass no matter how well fed they are , just like your goldfish .

    And lastly I wouldn't recommend any other fish in their growth phase .You can add food competitors and other species once they get half to fully grown or at least 5 inch size .
    Good luck with your decisions Ally and I hope you will be able to make your koi Pond dream come true some day .
    Thank you Filip! I probably should have mentioned that one of my favourite parts is taking a young fish and growing it into a beautiful adult! So I would be getting fairly small to start, although beyond the more fragile stages at first. Also, my other half would probably fall over if he saw the cost of the larger individuals, at least at this stage!

    I like that I can probably add a few bits of driftwood and some fern to break up the empty tank, that will work great for the first six months or so.

    My concern with the local water is a bit more than the chlorines etc, there have been times when several of us across the city have had weird, unexplained fish issues and deaths at the same time. There are sometimes news reports on how weird/bad the water can be for people around here, so I think there is something more than the usual chlorine happening.... so I think I will use RO at least partially to make sure. Losing a tank of discus or my angelfish would be pretty devastating.

    I probably phrased a bit badly - I don't mind if they are friendly, that's great to know! I was more concerned that I have heard they can be highly flighty and easily stressed and will hide a lot and that's what I am trying to avoid. I would have been happy if they floated around doing their own thing, I just don't want a fish that hides every time I come close. I guess it can be down to situation, if they are in a high traffic area they will get used to it whereas if they are tucked in a corner they may be more jumpy at seeing people.

    What about small scatterfish? Would having a small non food competitive species that is out and about help them feel more secure? If not, I will avoid adding any other fish until they are much bigger.

    Thank you for your help so far! I do hope one day I can venture into koi the way I had hoped, but I think it is going to be a few years at least... and to be honest, after reading more about Discus keeping, these flat round beasties may actually fulfill/replace the passion that I have for koi! And at considerably less water volume too.....

  5. #5
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pices View Post
    Most people use RO for certain wilds or for breeding purposes. What a lot of us do is age the water in a barrel, drum or trash can and add a heater and an air stone. This gases off some of the chlorine and prevents ph swings. It’s recommended to put some fresh water in a bucket and test the ph. Then test it 24 hrs later and if there is a ph difference of more than .2, you have a ph swing. If it’s the same or only changes a tad, then you can use tap water for water changes. Even though you gas off the chlorine, you still want to use a dechlorinator.
    Discus are a bit more work, but they are worth it and you just have to experience them to know why. I didn’t know what I was getting into when I started, and I’m glad I didn’t or I may not have taken on this fish that still has that somethin’ somethin’ years later.

    Thanks Pices, That is a good idea, I can probably set up a 50 gallon+ water barrel in the garage and I will check the ph etc. I still think I will get a small RO unit as there has been a couple of events of unusual fish deaths amidst friends and I, all at the same time and the only thing we can put it down to is the water. There have been articles recently about the quality of local water for human consumption... so to be safe I think I will do at least some RO water. I would hate to lose any more fish.

    I love that Discus are a bit more complicated, I really like a challenge and a hobby that requires some investment of time and energy and love... so I really think Discus may be my thing! I was very sad at not being able to get my koi again, but the Discus may be a perfect substitute. I am glad to hear that you still have that love for them years later!

  6. #6
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Based on what you said RO is a good idea, Ally. Your water bill will go up because there's a lot of waste water with RO. It would be nice if you could run it to your garden but if that isn't possible it isn't. If you live where there is little air pollution you could also collect rain water and run it through a carbon filter.

    The only problem with dither fish is that there is a possibility of them transferring a illness that your Discus had never seen. Lots of people take a chance on that but once in a while they get bit. It's up to you whether or not you want to take the chance without proper QT including the addition of a sacrificial lamb. Sterbai Cory's, Bristlenose Pleco's and a school of small tetras like cardinals, or rummynose are good choices as are several others.

    The drift wood with Anubis or Java fern is fine.

    There is one thing that you didn't mention. I strongly recommend that you buy all your Discus at the same time from the same seller. Again, this is due to the possibility of cross contamination. This is a much stronger possibility when you add Discus to other Discus that it does when you add other types of fish to a Discus Tank. This is true no matter how much you trust your Discus supplier. The only Discus that come from only one Discus farm are the German Discus from Discus Hans who is no longer one of our sponsors but you can find Discus Hans USA if Google is your friend.

    I think that you will do just fine because you are reading here and asking good questions. I'm excited for you.
    Mama Bear

  7. #7
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Based on what you said RO is a good idea, Ally. Your water bill will go up because there's a lot of waste water with RO. It would be nice if you could run it to your garden but if that isn't possible it isn't. If you live where there is little air pollution you could also collect rain water and run it through a carbon filter.

    The only problem with dither fish is that there is a possibility of them transferring a illness that your Discus had never seen. Lots of people take a chance on that but once in a while they get bit. It's up to you whether or not you want to take the chance without proper QT including the addition of a sacrificial lamb. Sterbai Cory's, Bristlenose Pleco's and a school of small tetras like cardinals, or rummynose are good choices as are several others.

    The drift wood with Anubis or Java fern is fine.

    There is one thing that you didn't mention. I strongly recommend that you buy all your Discus at the same time from the same seller. Again, this is due to the possibility of cross contamination. This is a much stronger possibility when you add Discus to other Discus that it does when you add other types of fish to a Discus Tank. This is true no matter how much you trust your Discus supplier. The only Discus that come from only one Discus farm are the German Discus from Discus Hans who is no longer one of our sponsors but you can find Discus Hans USA if Google is your friend.

    I think that you will do just fine because you are reading here and asking good questions. I'm excited for you.
    Hello Liz!

    I'm hoping to set up the RO in such a way to catch the waste for the garden, as you said, as I hate wasting water. The rainwater is also a good idea - although I am in Dallas, so for half a year, no rain Although with the insane weather we have had this spring I could probably have collected enough water to last those six months of drought....

    If I introduced a group of ditherfish to my small tank or a quarantine tank for, say, 6 weeks and then transferred them to the discus tank, would that eliminate or reduce any chance of transferring illness? Or is it more a case of they could be carrying something underlying that can get transferred because of the Discus' lack of exposure overall?

    I should have mentioned that I do indeed plan on getting them all from the one place at the same time, and then try to only introduce more from the same seller in the future, with a long quarantine and a hero fish. I am still looking around as to which seller - I will have a budget of under $300 at this point in time so I can't dive in to the top end ones yet! I have however seen that Discus Guy does great prices, and I have found a local breeder called Dallas Discus that I am waiting to hear back from. I am going to do a lot more research when the time to buy gets closer though, and will be looking through the breeders here for sure. I just need to decide what combination of types I would like! (checkerboard pigeon and snakeskins for sure! My favorite all over is gold checkerboard pigeon, but they seem to have a much higher pricetag and I have read that it's hard to keep yellow from becoming orange so I will try them when I am more experienced)

    Thanks for your reassurance, I always want to provide the best for my fish/animals. I tend to overthink and over-read everything I do, but it can come in handy! As I only have the one large tank (although we shall see!) I am trying to be extra considerate of my decisions!
    Last edited by Pudmuppy; 06-18-2019 at 02:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    The problem with dither fish is that they may introduce a pathogen that the Discus are susceptible to. The usual suspects are worms and hex, but it is unlikely they would carry a deadly disease especially if they are bred here in the States, but it's possible. You either suck it up and take a chance or decide against it. I'd go for it, but I don't have a husband who would raise hell with me if you lost your expensive fish before being able to figure out what was wrong and how to treat it. It's pretty much up to you.

    I Googled Discusguy and his reviews were not good. Beware of buying on price and pics of the best example of the strain being offered, not what the fish you buy will become. Patterns like checker board don't show up until the fish is almost breeding age. I have been unable to find anything on Dallas Discus which itself is not a good sign. At least he's close enough for you to visit his facility and see the fish you want with your own two eyes. John Nicholson is in the Dallas area, although way out in the sticks. He's a breeder of high quality fish but you will be limited in strain selection. You can find him on Facebook. If you can handle the price of shipping Discus Hans in Maryland is an excellent importer. Still you will be limited to the strains the big breeder in Germany breeds. His name is Stendker and his facility is closed. You could get Discus from Hans at different times and not have to even worry about QT. If you like variety, I understand that Kenny, a sponsor here, buys from just one big breeder. I've added more Discus from him to other fish from him without QT and everything was always fine. Give them a look.

    HTH,
    Liz
    Mama Bear

  9. #9
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hi Ally and welcome to the forum Are you referring to Discus Guy in NJ. There are better choices Check out our sponsors here. They have been personally vetted by Al (brewmaster15) who owns this place. If you want to look at some eye candy checkout Kenny's latest shipment http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...o-large-sizes).
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  10. #10
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hey Liz,
    I follow! I think I will make it an issue for another day, as I am not going to chance adding any extra fish until the Discus had been with me a good while anyway! I may try the hero discus route with all new fish, even the scatters to make sure...

    I admit I haven't fully researched who I want to source fish from yet, I am still just browsing lightly... I didn't see anything about Discusguy or Dallas Discus when I looked briefly in the review section here, but that's a shame about Discusguy... I will of course be doing really in depth reviews before purchase of any, I just liked that he seemed to offer a "mixed bag" of types for a good price which was appealing. Will keep looking!

    I've just seen John Nicholson's posts here and his fish are gorgeous - my other issue is that I don't have a car at present, although he is close enough that it may be possible! I have been looking at Hans and Kenny and drooling slightly - my concern has been the cost at this stage, with my lack of Discus knowhow. I do see that Kenny sometimes offers one or two strains at a more affordable price so I may keep an eye on that! I do like that I could add more fish down the road with less stress. I was initially hoping to get 6-10 small Discus so I had a large enough group (with room for mistakes!) and then trim down at a later date. I may have to rethink that and start with a smaller group of 6 better quality fish and either keep them in a smaller tank for the first couple of months, or block off part of the 75 gallon.

  11. #11
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Ally and welcome to the forum Are you referring to Discus Guy in NJ. There are better choices Check out our sponsors here. They have been personally vetted by Al (brewmaster15) who owns this place. If you want to look at some eye candy checkout Kenny's latest shipment http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...o-large-sizes).
    Pat
    Hi Pat! Thanks for the welcome - I have just been reading through your competition grow out thread actually! I believe that is the guy, I am hearing it may not be the best option!

    I have been looking at Kenny's offerings with heart eyes, however I think my budget may be a bit stretched at this stage - although I do see that he often offers a couple of strains that may be more within my budget. I want to make sure I can take care of these guys properly and get some experience, before I shell out big, otherwise I won't be sleeping, I will be getting up to do extra wc in the night

    A tiny, evil part of me is actually wondering about taking Al up on his offer when he does his fry flash sales and just diving in to the deep end, but we will see!

  12. #12
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    A tiny, evil part of me is actually wondering about taking Al up on his offer when he does his fry flash sales and just diving in to the deep end, but we will see!
    This might be worth considering Ally. His fry are great and he is a great resource.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  13. #13
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Well, does have a lot if eye candy in this shipment! I'm not into purchasing more Discus now so I didn't look at the tread. Ask him about bringing in some smaller fish for you. He's honest and trustworthy, and more than happy to accommodating his customers. Good choice, Pat.
    Mama Bear

  14. #14
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Ugh, so I've been monitoring my water and testing out of the tap and it was sitting at a pH of 6.4, lovely! However this was an old genetic test kit and I decided to be safe and get a new api test kit... Just tested tap water and it is a pH of 8.2?! I will retest again tomorrow and also test the water I've got sitting out, however I'm a bit concerned. Is this going to be too high for discus? I don't really have the capacity to use only ro water for huge water changes, I was going to do a mix which should drop it a bit?
    .
    I also don't want to use chemical buffers, trying to keep it as straight forward as possible.

    Any thoughts on whether discus will cope with a pH of around 8?

  15. #15
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    They'll do fine as long as the pH is stable. You only need to lower it for breeding and even that is more about kH than pH. There are some folks who can even breed in a pH is 8.
    Mama Bear

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