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Thread: Hello and a couple of questions

  1. #76
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Ally 1 thing to keep in mind with yellow discus is that you cannot feed most commercially prepared flake, pellet and frozen mixed foods as pretty much all of them contain astaxanthin (carotene) which will turn your yellow fish orange. Just a thought for your planning
    Here is 2 pics of my marlb yellow. The 1st was when I just received it from Dennis, the 2nd after 6 months of feeding home made deer heart mixed with fluval cichlid flakes.
    20180930_073757.jpg

    MVIMG_20190809_165547.jpg

    The difference in the quality of the yellow is quite obvious I think as a result of the astaxanthin in the flake I used...
    Last edited by danotaylor; 08-31-2019 at 02:50 PM.

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    ... tank has arrived and it is beyoootiful! (Photos will follow, however husband took them as I am *appallingly* bad with a camera)

    Husband ended up building most of the cabinet - he went into "male mode" and decided to take over, which I was fine with as it was 10pm and I didn't want to build anymore!
    I had been really nervous about lifting 140lbs of glass, but I bought some of those glass suction handle things and it was actually much easier than I thought. It is now sitting empty as my filtration hasn't arrived yet

    The bottom already had a black velvet layer added so I didn't want to paint or anything. I will see how things go with the dark ground and the darker wall, but am ready to add a vinyl layer to the back of the tank if it looks like the fish are remaining too dark or peppering, and will add a thin layer of white sand if the base is affecting them too. No painting the tank, too scary!

    I think I am in the minority in that I don't mind peppering, unless it was on something like a checkerboard that has very stark and clear colour differences, but if it develops and it is an easy fix then I will of course try remedy it

    I am still very torn as to which ones to actually get, I know three types that I really want to try, but the others change on a day to day basis when I browse through photos.... two of each, please!

    I would have loved to try yellows as that's my favourite colour but the Stendker don't seem to come in yellow - and very annoyingly, Uncle Sam's Discus is having a sale right now with some very nice looking yellows which has confused my decisions too, of course! I am aware that keeping them yellow is quite hard as well.
    As an afterthought, what do people think of Uncle Sam's Discus? My tank doesn't even have water in it, but that sale is tempting - I do have my ageing barrel with filter set up and I have a second filter running in my Q tank with one fighter fish in it that I could transfer to the main tank and take advantage of that sale.... However, I do like the Stendker so much.... hmmm.

    I waffle on too much, I know! I think I will start up an actual tank diary post next, to contain the waffling to a more appropriate place!
    Ally, I have had good luck with the Albino Millennium Golds that I got from Kenny this past October. No peppering, even with black sand, and the color holds true. I am feeding them frozen and freeze dried blood worms, frozen brine shrimp, occasional beef heart, freeze dried Black Worms, Hikari Vibra Bites and Discus Bio-Gold. Most of those foods should inhibit the redish hue. Not with these AMGs. Other fish in the tank include Alenquer, Red Alenquer, and Red Heckel of which I am trying to enhance the red tint with the same foods.
    Last edited by peewee1; 08-31-2019 at 03:31 PM.

  3. #78
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Norm I just checked out the ingredients of Vibra Bites which has astaxanthin, and biogold has carotene. Both of those ingredients will enhance red's turning yellow fish orange. Your other choices of frozen & freeze dried foods should inhibit the enhancement of reds, unless the BH is commercially produced, then it likely has either or both of those enhancers.

  4. #79
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    I met the Uncle Sam's folks at NADA in Chicago. I found them to be honest. Do a search here on Simply, Everyone who has purchased fish from them have nothing but good to say. It they have albion golds that would be a good way to go,

    It's a good thing that you don't mind peppering
    Last edited by LizStreithorst; 08-31-2019 at 05:31 PM.
    Mama Bear

  5. #80
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Still alive, still reading here daily, still cycling tank - but it's close!

    I bailed on discus briefly for a few days there - I had a strange incident in my quarantine tank where I lost three angels that had been doing great - they were actually due to join my other angels the next day but when I looked at them - dead! Then I lost one of my female fighters in another tank and I convinced myself that I am just going to stunt or kill discus... then husband actually pointed out that even if that did happen, it would be horrible, then live, learn, get up again, buy more discus. Feeling better and back to reading up!

    I have (another!!!) question. I am starting to decide what strains I would like to try. I am going to go with Stendker. I am considering doing Hans 10 pack special as I can't decide, but I am also a big fan of the single, or two strain tanks. I have also been reading that if I did get any pairs in the future, a pigeon crossed with a non-pigeon will result in pretty ugly babies. So I am trying to decide if I want to risk that in the assumption I will not breed this lot, or get all non pigeons, or perhaps get all pigeons - my question is really whether if I happened to have say a pigeon blood blue and a pigeon blood silver that bred, is this likely to keep peppering low? Can one cross between the different pigeon strains without dirty babies and is it only with a non pb that the problem reemerges?

  6. #81
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Any breeding that happens will be a happy and exciting surprise!

    I wouldn't limit yourself on what you like based on hypothetical, potential breeding pairs that might some day form and possible give you fry that survive and grow out. Get the strains you like and enjoy the experience!

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    Still alive, still reading here daily, still cycling tank - but it's close!

    I bailed on discus briefly for a few days there - I had a strange incident in my quarantine tank where I lost three angels that had been doing great - they were actually due to join my other angels the next day but when I looked at them - dead! Then I lost one of my female fighters in another tank and I convinced myself that I am just going to stunt or kill discus... then husband actually pointed out that even if that did happen, it would be horrible, then live, learn, get up again, buy more discus. Feeling better and back to reading up!

    I have (another!!!) question. I am starting to decide what strains I would like to try. I am going to go with Stendker. I am considering doing Hans 10 pack special as I can't decide, but I am also a big fan of the single, or two strain tanks. I have also been reading that if I did get any pairs in the future, a pigeon crossed with a non-pigeon will result in pretty ugly babies. So I am trying to decide if I want to risk that in the assumption I will not breed this lot, or get all non pigeons, or perhaps get all pigeons - my question is really whether if I happened to have say a pigeon blood blue and a pigeon blood silver that bred, is this likely to keep peppering low? Can one cross between the different pigeon strains without dirty babies and is it only with a non pb that the problem reemerges?
    Welcome, Ally!

    I think that you should put breeding to the side when selecting fish as a hobbyist and learn with less expensive fish. Now, if you want to make money from breeding, then, sure, be super selective. Selective ='s $$$. The only thing I do not like about pigeons is the peppering. Now a days you could find some nice PB strains that have light to no peppering at all. If you do happen to breed PB's with peppering you will have to cull the peppered ones. Breed those off springs, and do the same process again until peppering is removed. I have a nice PB pair, they had no peppering when I bought them and unfortunately I put them in a black-bottom, black-background tank and the female peppered. The male has like 1 spec here and there almost unnoticeable. As far as patterns, I don't mind. That's the joy of breeding. However, I agree with you and the peppering.

    This is them not peppered

    39B5D1E7-C909-4F95-97D2-161F0ED0C6AF.jpg

    and then peppered. Photo posted sideways and not sure how to fix it. This is them spawning.
    6B57B945-2BE4-4EE0-B443-618B3F3E4174.jpg
    Last edited by Mando; 09-20-2019 at 12:40 PM.

  8. #83
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hi guys, thanks for your answers about fish selection - very true, I am thinking a bit too hard about things at this stage and looking too far ahead - I'm going to try and focus more on actually getting some fish and keeping them alive and healthy and not stunted for the time being... I am not intentionally looking to breed, it was more a case of if it happens then I will explore that a bit more.

    MY tank is still sitting empty, although I do have some sand and a manzanita branch in there now - husband has insisted that we have something on the base, but I don't mind and will just up the cleaning on the base. It seems to show up every spec of dirt too, which is a good thing so I can find it! I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the fish as I am both extremely busy and getting used to looking after a large tank, and also it is still cycling although I am starting to get a lot of nitrites and nitrates showing and very little ammonia, so we are close. I have a couple of days off in a fortnight so that may be a good time...

    I also won't lie, I am pretty nervous about how much effort and time is needed for discus, not to mention that even people that do it perfectly will come home and a fish is sick/died... I guess all one can do is jump in with both feet, learn, and deal with anything that comes their way so that in the future they know a little bit more. Oh, and hang out here loads too

  9. #84
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    Hi guys, thanks for your answers about fish selection - very true, I am thinking a bit too hard about things at this stage and looking too far ahead - I'm going to try and focus more on actually getting some fish and keeping them alive and healthy and not stunted for the time being... I am not intentionally looking to breed, it was more a case of if it happens then I will explore that a bit more.

    MY tank is still sitting empty, although I do have some sand and a manzanita branch in there now - husband has insisted that we have something on the base, but I don't mind and will just up the cleaning on the base. It seems to show up every spec of dirt too, which is a good thing so I can find it! I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the fish as I am both extremely busy and getting used to looking after a large tank, and also it is still cycling although I am starting to get a lot of nitrites and nitrates showing and very little ammonia, so we are close. I have a couple of days off in a fortnight so that may be a good time...

    I also won't lie, I am pretty nervous about how much effort and time is needed for discus, not to mention that even people that do it perfectly will come home and a fish is sick/died... I guess all one can do is jump in with both feet, learn, and deal with anything that comes their way so that in the future they know a little bit more. Oh, and hang out here loads too
    Sooner or later, passion kicks in and you will be bending over backwards for these fish. In the eyes of non-discus keepers or non-aquarist individuals, it's a lot of work. But, can an enthusiast really say it's work? I enjoy what I do for these fish and I LOVE spending my time on the weekends going to fish stores, upgrading systems, cleaning the tanks/pond, and, not to mention, DIY projects. When I do have a little time for TV, I find myself slowly shifting my attention to my tanks. This morning I woke up and did three water changes for my three tanks and there is nothing better than sipping coffee and watching your fish at 5am.

    It does not feel like work.

  10. #85
    Registered Member 14Discus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    I agree.....get what you like and worry abt breeding later. IMHO, get the largest fish you can afford bc if you are worried abt WCs etc, and the time spent factor, adults require fewer changes than the grow-outs or smaller mid-sized fish. You will still have to do WCs in order to be successful with adults, but fewer are needed. Also, stunting is not an issue much with larger fish. My yellows tank is gorgeous and I keep them yellow by feeding them freeze dried Austr blackworms which have no color enhancing ingredients. Al sells the plain worms here at this site. You could even feed this to a tank w both reds and yellows and the two colors should remain true. Since I have the desire to bring out the reds of my Red Eagles etc, I also have a tank with reds and blues so I can feed color enhanced foods to bring out the reds. You are wise to be thinking abt this before getting fish and for getting your tank cycled ready.

  11. #86
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando View Post
    Sooner or later, passion kicks in and you will be bending over backwards for these fish. In the eyes of non-discus keepers or non-aquarist individuals, it's a lot of work. But, can an enthusiast really say it's work? I enjoy what I do for these fish and I LOVE spending my time on the weekends going to fish stores, upgrading systems, cleaning the tanks/pond, and, not to mention, DIY projects. When I do have a little time for TV, I find myself slowly shifting my attention to my tanks. This morning I woke up and did three water changes for my three tanks and there is nothing better than sipping coffee and watching your fish at 5am.

    It does not feel like work.
    I don't know why I am worrying so much, as I actually really enjoy water changes - my goldfish and newts get at least three a week (but on a smaller scale!) It is very therapeutic, I agree... I think I just need to get into the swing of things and stop stressing I am already thinking about getting up earlier in the morning to get my daily household stuff done, so I am free to do fun stuff in the evenings more.

    ... and if anyone wants a funny story, I was doing a water change yesterday while husband was on the sofa right in front of the tank - I got a bit complacent when pulling on the hose that just filled up the tank and it flipped out of the water and threw some splatters of water across the room and onto him and the dogs.... I did squeak a warning before it hit them, but the dogs flew across the room in horror... husband, surprisingly, just lifted an eyebrow and went back to the ipad... bodes well for future incidents, I think?

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    I don't know why I am worrying so much, as I actually really enjoy water changes - my goldfish and newts get at least three a week (but on a smaller scale!) It is very therapeutic, I agree... I think I just need to get into the swing of things and stop stressing I am already thinking about getting up earlier in the morning to get my daily household stuff done, so I am free to do fun stuff in the evenings more.

    ... and if anyone wants a funny story, I was doing a water change yesterday while husband was on the sofa right in front of the tank - I got a bit complacent when pulling on the hose that just filled up the tank and it flipped out of the water and threw some splatters of water across the room and onto him and the dogs.... I did squeak a warning before it hit them, but the dogs flew across the room in horror... husband, surprisingly, just lifted an eyebrow and went back to the ipad... bodes well for future incidents, I think?
    LOL @ husbands reaction. I had the same thing happen to me two days ago with my new tank. As the water level increased, the hose started to float and shift outwards until it got me in the back. I was facing watching the news.

  13. #88
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    You were worried that your husband would be angry about the cost of a large tank and Discus. But he suggested a large tank when he saw one, right? It's obvious that he is on your side. I also think that he respects you for all the research and experiments you have done. He's on your side with this endeavor.

    Consider getting larger Discus this first time around. They are so much more resistant to bad stuff. And they display symptoms which gives you time to treat for what the problem is. Despite all your reading and experimentation something weird will happen eventually. I've been in Discus since 2001 and I've through more problems than I can remember.

    The moment that tank is cycled I suggest you take the plunge and buy the fish. You have already seen all the potential problems that you could see, and overcome them. It's time to take the plunge.
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  14. #89
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando View Post
    LOL @ husbands reaction. I had the same thing happen to me two days ago with my new tank. As the water level increased, the hose started to float and shift outwards until it got me in the back. I was facing watching the news.
    That's kinda what happened to me - the pipe was sitting at the top, mostly floating but pegged to the side, but I pulled on it and it just flipped over It could have gone much worse, but he handled it very well and I actually think he thought it was funny too!

  15. #90
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    You were worried that your husband would be angry about the cost of a large tank and Discus. But he suggested a large tank when he saw one, right? It's obvious that he is on your side. I also think that he respects you for all the research and experiments you have done. He's on your side with this endeavor.

    Consider getting larger Discus this first time around. They are so much more resistant to bad stuff. And they display symptoms which gives you time to treat for what the problem is. Despite all your reading and experimentation something weird will happen eventually. I've been in Discus since 2001 and I've through more problems than I can remember.

    The moment that tank is cycled I suggest you take the plunge and buy the fish. You have already seen all the potential problems that you could see, and overcome them. It's time to take the plunge.
    He is a very good man, he just gets a bit anxious over some things He has been looking at a few fish with me and I have been encouraging him to help pick types out - so far he seems to really like blue turk types and snakeskins. I still haven't decided what types to go for.....

    I think the tank has nearly cycled, but have actually bought a new API ammonia kit as I still have a suspicion that it is not reading accurately, however I have taken a few days holiday from 4th October and I reckon that's the perfect time to be home to receive a package, if you know what I mean

    I am considering adding a few scatterfish in the next couple of days to act as canaries, and also because I would really like to have something moving in there soon - would it be wise to add a few cardinals or others, or perhaps a few cories? Or should I really just wait until the discus are in there for a few weeks/months?

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