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Thread: Hello and a couple of questions

  1. #16
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    They'll do fine as long as the pH is stable. You only need to lower it for breeding and even that is more about kH than pH. There are some folks who can even breed in a pH is 8.
    Thanks Liz, I had a momentary panic there. I have read that it's not about PH but it's stability day to day, but have also read a lot of people saying that 8 is still too high. I have a tub of tapwater sitting out now, and one being lightly airated and we will see what happens tonight. I believe that it is pretty stable overall which will be a relief. I didn't get a KH test kit but I probably will - though I am not planning on breeding (Though of course that will probably change!)

  2. #17
    Registered Member Cove Beach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Welcome to the Discus hobby/addiction LOL You had a question about flighty fish, and being in a high traffic area. My display is an in wall room divider with the end panel facing the front door to the house. Company walks in all the time and the fish come to greet them and check them out. If I’m working in the office they watch me! When cleaning the glass I often have to push them out of the way to work. I started with 3-5” fish from Kenny as i hadn’t kept discus before. He is great to work with and takes the time to answer any questions you might have. My display has pool filter sand and Malaysian driftwood. I had intended to add plants later but so far after a year have not. Like Liz said consistent ph is more important than a specific target. Mine runs 7.2 pretty much. I was worried about my wife not going along with the cost of the fish, until she saw them in person and after that experiencing how much the interact, she was sold. At our house we watch “Fish TV” most nights.

  3. #18
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cove Beach View Post
    Welcome to the Discus hobby/addiction LOL You had a question about flighty fish, and being in a high traffic area. My display is an in wall room divider with the end panel facing the front door to the house. Company walks in all the time and the fish come to greet them and check them out. If I’m working in the office they watch me! When cleaning the glass I often have to push them out of the way to work. I started with 3-5” fish from Kenny as i hadn’t kept discus before. He is great to work with and takes the time to answer any questions you might have. My display has pool filter sand and Malaysian driftwood. I had intended to add plants later but so far after a year have not. Like Liz said consistent ph is more important than a specific target. Mine runs 7.2 pretty much. I was worried about my wife not going along with the cost of the fish, until she saw them in person and after that experiencing how much the interact, she was sold. At our house we watch “Fish TV” most nights.
    All great information, thank you! I wonder if the whole "flighty" Discus idea came from pet shops where sick stressed fish were acting unwell and flighty, that's why that reputation was gained. Your room divider sounds awesome, something I would love to do in the future

  4. #19
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Ugghh.. things get worse. I set up another experiment and tested tap water straight from the tap with my new api kit - PH 8.2, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, ammonia 1ppm (!) then sat a bucket of water for 24 hours..... PH 7.4, nitrites .25, nitrates 0, ammonia 1ppm.....

    So that's a ph drop of significance. I really had thought that the ph was high but stable. I am going to do a few more tests in case something went wrong, but I am not happy with that reading at all.

    I am thinking that I should be ok to set up a bucket of around 40-50 gallons either in my garage or somewhere quiet in the garden, but this means I can only do 50% water changes daily. Which may mean that I need to purchase larger and stronger discus? or would 8 or so 3" discus be ok in a 75 gallon tank that gets 50% daily? I am contemplating if I could fit in a larger barrel without husband noticing! My other concern is the extra time it will take to fill up an intermediary vessel daily - it probably isn't a lot of time but I will need to factor it in.

    My other huge issue is with the ammonia reading! Is it normal to have ammonia showing up in tap water? If so, I am giving my dogs filtered water from now on! I believe that the dechlorinator will break down the ammonia so I am not too worried for the fish, but it was a surprise! I am in Dallas, and this area is known for doing some pretty poor stuff with its water!

  5. #20
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Do they add chloramines to the water? Prime would fix that. I can't understand the nitrate reading of 0 the first time and .25 after aging.

    IMO the 3" Discus should do fine with a 50% WC. I only do the huge WC's with babies 2" and under.
    Mama Bear

  6. #21
    Registered Member Cove Beach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    You might consider running the tap water through a sediment filter and carbon block which will help with crud and chlorine coming in from the city. I was surprised at how much dirt is in the “fit for drinking” water out of the tap. Mine runs through a sediment and 2 carbon blocks and then into aging barrels controlled by a float switch. Also there is a large air stone running continuously in the barrel. Your aged ph is very close to what I have here so no problem.

  7. #22
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hi everyone!
    I am still in the indecisive stage - I really want to keep discus, but am now concerned at the added work with my dodgy ph fluctuations. The ammonia I could handle with chlorine remover, but the ph drop is insane. I am trying to decide whether I have the capacity (and time!) to set up a barrel in the garage to age the water daily and then also be able to run the water from the sink to the garage, and then aging barrel to the tank - it will be a good distance apart! I have been thinking of using a powerhead to drain tank, aging barrel to tank, then sink to aging barrel, but I am really worried about the amount of time this will take each day/every second day. It may be feasible, although I think I will have to get up earlier each morning!

    How do you all do your water changes? How long on average does it take you to do say a 50% water change on a 75/100 gallon and then top up your aging barrel?

    Thanks everyone for your continued patience!

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    ...How do you all do your water changes? How long on average does it take you to do say a 50% water change on a 75/100 gallon and then top up your aging barrel?
    I use 2x Brute trash cans on wheels. One can is the dirty water can, the other is the fresh water can. I have a pump with a hose in the clean water can and I attach the hose to the lip of the aquarium using a clamp. The pump is plugged into my ATO unit. As I remove water from the tank the ATO kicks the pump on and refills the tank for me. I have it set up so the dirty water is slowly removed over a 6 hour period, but you could certainly do it manually. I let mine run overnight and in the morning I simply hook my fresh water can up to my RO system and let it fill while I am at work. The can has a powerhead in it to create aeration in the can while I am gone and by the time I get home it is ready to do another water change. In all I have about 5 minutes of work to do a 40g water change. I vacuum the substrate once a week and do a manual water change at that time.

  9. #24
    Registered Member Cove Beach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    How close would the aging barrel be to the tank? If you run your tap water through a filter you could run the 1/4” line to your aging barrel a lot easier than a big hose and use a float switch to shut it off. If your house is one floor you could do a Brute on wheels for drain and fill. Just really depends on obstacles in the house. In my situation my tank is on the main level and plumbed through the floor to a sump where all the wet fun happens.

  10. #25
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lpsouth1978 View Post
    I use 2x Brute trash cans on wheels. One can is the dirty water can, the other is the fresh water can. I have a pump with a hose in the clean water can and I attach the hose to the lip of the aquarium using a clamp. The pump is plugged into my ATO unit. As I remove water from the tank the ATO kicks the pump on and refills the tank for me. I have it set up so the dirty water is slowly removed over a 6 hour period, but you could certainly do it manually. I let mine run overnight and in the morning I simply hook my fresh water can up to my RO system and let it fill while I am at work. The can has a powerhead in it to create aeration in the can while I am gone and by the time I get home it is ready to do another water change. In all I have about 5 minutes of work to do a 40g water change. I vacuum the substrate once a week and do a manual water change at that time.
    Hi Ipsouth, thanks for the information, that's very interesting - how big are your brute cans? 40g? are they easy enough to move around? I like the idea of a slow feed actually.

    Just thinking aloud here, but I had another idea... I also have my other 20 gallon newt/temperate fish tank which I am actually about to upgrade to a 30 gallon (no bigger than this, thanks husband:P) ... I am wondering if I could shift the inhabitants of the newt tank to the 70 gallon, make a temporary set up that looks nice with other temperate/tolerant fish and then keep 6 or so juvenile discus in the 30 gallon for 4-6 months, until they are of a large enough size to cope with going into the 70 gallon? It would be overstocked, but kept barebottom and get daily 90% water changes, perhaps twice daily if I can find a RO system in my budget that keeps up. I can add a sponge filter to help the bioload along with the biowheel (which I will muffle the flow from). Then once the discus are bigger and established, do a swap and move my newts back to their 30 gallon with a few of my favourite temperate fish, and rehome the others.

    Is this mad talk? Could 6 or more 2.5"-3" discus grow well in a 30 gallon or am I going to see bullying and stunting even with daily wc? What sort of size and age would you consider being safe enough to move into a 70 gallon lightly planted tank and have water changes reduced to large changes, twice a week?

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    Hi Ipsouth, thanks for the information, that's very interesting - how big are your brute cans? 40g? are they easy enough to move around? I like the idea of a slow feed actually.

    Just thinking aloud here, but I had another idea... I also have my other 20 gallon newt/temperate fish tank which I am actually about to upgrade to a 30 gallon (no bigger than this, thanks husband:P) ... I am wondering if I could shift the inhabitants of the newt tank to the 70 gallon, make a temporary set up that looks nice with other temperate/tolerant fish and then keep 6 or so juvenile discus in the 30 gallon for 4-6 months, until they are of a large enough size to cope with going into the 70 gallon? It would be overstocked, but kept barebottom and get daily 90% water changes, perhaps twice daily if I can find a RO system in my budget that keeps up. I can add a sponge filter to help the bioload along with the biowheel (which I will muffle the flow from). Then once the discus are bigger and established, do a swap and move my newts back to their 30 gallon with a few of my favourite temperate fish, and rehome the others.

    Is this mad talk? Could 6 or more 2.5"-3" discus grow well in a 30 gallon or am I going to see bullying and stunting even with daily wc? What sort of size and age would you consider being safe enough to move into a 70 gallon lightly planted tank and have water changes reduced to large changes, twice a week?
    I can't really help you with the questions about number of fish in the 30g, though I am sure someone will chime in. My brute cans are 44g. They hold ~40g where I have the float switch installed. If I went to the brim it would be 44, but would be impossible to move the cans around without sloshing water all over the house. By doing the slow feed, you do not have much of a concern over swings in temp, GH, KH, and pH. Any changes take place over a LONG period and pose little risk. I still age my water for about 12 hours before using it, but I don't worry about heating it at all.

  12. #27

    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Yeah who can't move around a 40gal. Brute can

    Thanks Jeanne

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hi Ally,

    First of all, congrats on your Discus journey, and since you visited this site before you started, I'd say you already made your life A LOT easier.

    I am also a discus newbie (<2 years into discus) but been through quite a lot in term of newbie mistakes / adventures.

    Please take my below advice with a grain of salt.

    1. Please get the biggest tank as you can. Sooner or later, you will think "IF ONLY I WENT FOR THE BIGGER ONE"
    2. Please get the biggest discus as you can, for the first batch at least. <- Would save you from a heck of headache.
    3. Please get as many discus as you can. Most of us lost/stunt a few along the way. It's a part of the journey.
    4. Please go with bare bottom tank for your first batch. <- Would save you from a heck of headache.
    5. Change your water as frequently and as much as you can (90% a day is not even too much for discus nerds, you know.)
    6. When s$%t happens (and, well, it might happen), please calm down and visit this site. Ask question, provide necessary details. Follow instructions from these discus pros. They really save lives!

    7. After a success season or so, you might consider do things you wanted, adding some plants here and there, adding few tank mates, adding new champion quality discus, raising from a pup, breeding exotic strain, searching for holy grail etc.

    8. Last but not least, please read this thread, one of my favorite from Al.
    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...r-the-Hobbyist



    Enjoy your journey!
    Water change is not just a chore, it's my life now...

  14. #29
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by snxtif View Post
    Hi Ally,

    First of all, congrats on your Discus journey, and since you visited this site before you started, I'd say you already made your life A LOT easier.

    I am also a discus newbie (<2 years into discus) but been through quite a lot in term of newbie mistakes / adventures.

    Please take my below advice with a grain of salt.

    1. Please get the biggest tank as you can. Sooner or later, you will think "IF ONLY I WENT FOR THE BIGGER ONE"
    2. Please get the biggest discus as you can, for the first batch at least. <- Would save you from a heck of headache.
    3. Please get as many discus as you can. Most of us lost/stunt a few along the way. It's a part of the journey.
    4. Please go with bare bottom tank for your first batch. <- Would save you from a heck of headache.
    5. Change your water as frequently and as much as you can (90% a day is not even too much for discus nerds, you know.)
    6. When s$%t happens (and, well, it might happen), please calm down and visit this site. Ask question, provide necessary details. Follow instructions from these discus pros. They really save lives!

    7. After a success season or so, you might consider do things you wanted, adding some plants here and there, adding few tank mates, adding new champion quality discus, raising from a pup, breeding exotic strain, searching for holy grail etc.

    8. Last but not least, please read this thread, one of my favorite from Al.
    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...r-the-Hobbyist



    Enjoy your journey!

    Hi Snxtif!
    Thanks for the welcome! I am actually an over-reader, so I tend to burn myself out and decide not to do The Thing that I am reading about because I get stuck too deep and decide that I can't manage it after all. Interestingly, despite that, I keep coming back to read and plan more about Discus so that is a good sign!

    As for tank size - it will be a 72 gallon, and I may try build my own sump to create a bigger volume. I would get bigger but husband has vetoed that - for now!! I actually caught him looking at a 120 gallon tank online *all by himself* so that's really exciting I know exactly how to, ahem, encourage him too - basically give him a beautiful end result as he loves art and gorgeous things... aka, a beautiful tank (looking at Waterbox) and a group of adult discus is going to bowl him over! So perhaps in a couple of years an upgrade can happen (mwahaha)

    As this is my first time with Discus, and as my OH is nervous enough as it is about their cost, it will be smaller 2.5-3.5" fish that I start with. One of my favourite parts is growing out, so I do prefer smaller

    I am thinking of starting with 8-10, but they might be starting in a 30 gallon for a couple of months to grow out, I am undecided whether to put them straight into the big tank, if they start in the small tank I might do 6-8 with the assumption there will be a couple of losses as I get to grips

    Most certainly, definitely bare bottom for the first few months! I want to mostly have hardscape and then a playsand substrate, but I will add that as I go. I may even just add tile or something to the bottom if it looks nice.

    My muscles and I are ready for the epic water changes! I am going to buy some 30 gallon buckets for aging water - I have a significant ph drop overnight and am still thinking about an RO unit too. I actually do daily water changes on my small tank as I have a couple of goldfish, and my newts love fresh water too so it shouldn't take much time to get into the routine of doing a second tank, just on a bigger scale!

    I am really looking forward to getting experienced enough to feel like I can add more higher quality discus in the future, and I am especially interested in breeding too, but that will be a long way off! I liked to breed angels and bettas, and leopard geckos and am looking forward to breeding newts so I am sure the discus will be a new obsession too....

    lastly, thank you for that link! I am actually watching Al's video (through DIY) which is an hour and 20 minutes long, right now

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Ally,

    As I said earlier, you've taken a great step reading this site before head diving into this world lol.

    I'd say don't worry about your OH. Most likely, well, let's say in many cases, they would join us.
    Who wouldn't love brilliant color fish with beautiful patterns and stupid face (#sincerecompliment)
    (or well, "if you can't defeat them, join them" mentality?)
    My wife gave me a dirty look when I bought my tank, but now she even helps me feeding & checking all the chics.

    For the aesthetic part, yeah, let's take it step by step.
    Just to make sure you know what you are doing then it should be fine.
    (like, if you have substrate, say bye bye to beefheart etc.)
    I would start from driftwood with Anubias (even it would feel like putting pairs of scissors hanging dangerously on coffee table while trying to take care of 7-8 toddlers... indeed).
    Substrate would be my last choice though (been there done that, had a hard time taking all out).
    Things can be done differently, but it would come with a cost (time, effort, headache).

    Most importantly, don't forget to share us your journey, we love story of people buying new fish and pics, lots of pics.

    Cheers
    Water change is not just a chore, it's my life now...

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