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Thread: Hello and a couple of questions

  1. #46
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    James, it is the API test, which I believe will be Total. I have also done several checks with the Seachem test kit which shows both total and free - it always shows 0 free and over 3ppm total for my tap water, so I am pretty confident there is no free. That's interesting that you think it isn't from the Prime - there is hope yet!

    Liz, one of the reasons I am fighting to make this work is so I have an excuse to keep hanging out on this forum! I haven't met a friendlier, more helpful group and I want to stay
    I like to solve problems, I bet I wouldn't be half as interested in fishkeeping if it wasn't the need for constant tinkering to produce the happiest, healthiest fish. If it was a case of plonking some bright coloured fish in a glass box and sitting watching them (although I do like that part too!), then I am sure I would be bored stiff!

    I do find I need to immerse myself totally into a hobby, it needs to have some depth to keep my interest. Although I do believe that if this was a situation where my tank was in my house, up and running and ready for fish, then I wouldn't be doing so much investigation - I would have either risked it and gotten some discus in there and worked it out as I went (or not worked!) or would have jumped into my other favourite fish - which still may happen anyway, depending on how I feel about the water over the next couple of weeks. I like fish It would/will either be angelfish and guianacara/geophagus or an excuse for more big fat goldfish

    Water readings last night were pretty much the same as before, but I will report back when I get my KH/GH test!

    I should also take a moment to give my husband some kudos - when we went to the LFS, they happened to have the brand of tank there that I am getting and he fell in love... and stood in front of the 145 gallon version and *Very Seriously* considered upgrading to it (I didn't even ask!!!!!) The only thing that really stopped him, is that it is very big and would dominate our living room a bit too much - but he did say that it was a big probability we would get that one if we moved to another house (Which is likely in a few years). Yaaaay, I am winning him over into the world of big tanks

  2. #47
    Registered Member Cove Beach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Something else to consider, if you do take the RO route. Bulk Reef Supply makes a kit that adds a second membrane that filters the waste water a second time which increases product water and cuts water going down the drain. I run one on both my drinking water RO and the one for the fish when I had marine tanks and for breeding tanks for discus.

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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Any update?

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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Interestingly, thanks a lot for making some points clear.

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    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Hello James, everyone!

    I've been quietly (well, not quietly, but anxiously!) keeping an eye on the 5 gallon tank I set up as a test tank... I have been treating it like a new set up and seeing what the results would be with the water parameters. I seeded it with some Fluval biomax rings from my goldfish tank, and also added half a box of new Fluval rings and a new scrubby sponge.

    It has been up and running now for seven days, no water changes and these are the results from the past three days:

    22nd:
    PH 7
    Ammonia .5
    Nitrite .5
    Nitrate 5
    GH 6
    KH 2
    (Readings each day previously were exactly the same as this except PH normally 6.8)

    Then on the 23rd, things started to change..... a white film appeared on the surface which is always exciting, although I think that might be from the Prime as it also appeared on my betta 5 gallon tank

    23rd:
    PH 6.8
    Ammonia .25
    Nitrite between 0-.25
    Nitrate between 0-5
    GH 6
    KH 3

    24th:
    (I did a top of of tap water with prime yesterday due to evaporation)
    PH 6.8
    Amm .25
    Nitrite 0
    Nitrate between 0-5 but closer to 0
    Didn't check GH and KH)

    For reference, tap water that has been aged for 24 hours with no prime added comes out at
    GH 6
    KH 5


    Would it be wise to start changing out some of the water yet, or best to let it do it's thing till I have zero nitrites and nitrates?

    I had expected with the ammonia drop to see a rise in nitrites, but maybe that will come soon.

    I have been chatting with husband - He nearly went for the 140 gallon! He was pretty much set on it, until he realised that it was going to be too big for us to move around ourselves, and as we are thinking we will be moving at some point in the next few years, it seemed like a hassle and I agree. He may be up for adding a second 70 gallon in the future though! - and the train of thought is still to do RO water. I need to think about it a bit more and work out where I could actually set something up, but I think all my fish will thank me.

    Interestingly, I added more fluval ceramics to my goldfish tank two days ago and today the water is *sparking* so they are doing their job! May just have needed a bigger surface for bacteria there - going to do a test on this tank tomorrow and see what the results are there too.

    Getting angsty now as to what to do though. I keep seeing people selling pinoy angelfish and thinking I should just grab them instead... but I would rather have both Good thing the small test tank isn't showing good results yet as I may have just caved and grabbed a ton of angels to pop into quarantine

    I am thinking that things are getting there, albeit slowly, but it will be interesting to see what happens once the tank is stable and I do a 100% water change, how fast it can break down the ammonia.

    Our walls are being painted in three weeks time, so I will be getting the tank around then, then setting up for probably 3 weeks+ running empty (or with goldfish!) till it establishes, so I still have a lot of play time / science time.
    Last edited by Pudmuppy; 07-25-2019 at 11:36 AM.

  6. #51
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Your GH and KH are good, water is soft without being too soft. It looks like your cycle is starting in your 5 gallon tank, I would do a small (20-35%) WC and wait until ammonia and nitrite read 0. Once you get there you can do a 100% WC and wait and watch. You will never get 0 nitrates that is your end point but zero ammonia and nitrites are what you need before fish or in your case water for a WC.

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    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Thanks for your advice, James - I ended up doing about 20% change yesterday (with Prime) - and then today's results were up where they were originally (PH 6.4, Amm .5, nitrites .5, Nitrates 5...) Which was highly frustrating but expected to some degree... however, out of frustration I decided to test Ammonia in my goldfish tank which had a 40% wc yesterday (and tends to get 20% every couple of days anyway) and to my very much surprise, Ammonia was between 0 and .25, probably closer to 0 where before it has always sat at .5 I added a large quantity of Fluval biomax ceramic rings to their biowheel filter about a week ago, just because I bought a new pack for this water experiment and thought it couldn't hurt, now I am thinking of throwing in the remainder of the pack to see if I simply need to be working in larger quantities of material than I thought.

    Still, it's kinda exciting and it gives me more hope for the ageing barrel/filter combination working. I won't touch the experiment tank unless I really need to top up some of the water (and then I might use some bottled RO water I have) and see what the results are like for the next week.

    I am noticing more and more people on different forums running into the same problem, chloramines in the tap water and it also being variable by weather... I really hope some savvy fishkeeping scientist comes up with a solution other than RO!

  8. #53
    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    ... am still here Am still undecided on my final stock... I keep changing my mind, but then I come here and see such beautiful fish it pulls me back in....

    My test tank was a total failure - I ended up throwing in 20+ snails a week ago unexpectedly - I ordered them online but asked for them to be held for at least a couple of weeks as it is too hot here, they ended up in my metal letterbox all day so I panicked when I realised what they were and threw them into the first available healthy body of water. Only lost two (and whoah can they poop). Then my betta sorority had a scuffle and it turned out one of them was actually a very small undercolored male so he too is now swimming in my experiment tank. No point measuring readings now!

    Last night I set up a 20 gallon tote in my garage which I am planning on using to age water whether I do Discus or not, and tonight I will move a chunk of the media from the test tank to a new filter and get that up and running again as though starting from scratch - I am sure it will mature a lot faster though with the old media though. Then in a week or so I hope to recheck how quickly I can get rid of the ammonia.

    Friday 16th the painters are coming to do the walls, so this weekend it is time to do some purchasing!!! I intend for the tank to arrive around or after the painters are finished so it can go straight in to its spot and start cycling - then I might actually get closer to making a decision (or not)

    I did have a question - I absolutely love how wild discus look, stunning. I am not going down that path yet though. Would you say that alenquers are the closest looking to wild discus or are there other types?
    Are wild discus hard to keep coloration over successive generations? I am intrigued as to why you don't see many F1, 2, 3 captive bred but still wild looking.

  9. #54
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    If you decide to go with Discus I think that you should look at Discus Hans' fish. He only imports from Stendker in Germany. He carries a Stendker Tefe's. They look nothing like wild Tefes, but to me they look the closest to wilds as you can get.

    Wilds are very hard to keep and breed without perfect water conditions. Even in perfect conditions it is hard to give them what they need to be comfortable enough to breed. I think that Pat once had wilds breed for her.

    I have been waiting to see an up-date from you. I thought that you would have better news about the water problem. I'm sad for you. You worked very hard. In your case I would buy smaller fish and see how they do. I'm rooting for you!
    Mama Bear

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    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    If you decide to go with Discus I think that you should look at Discus Hans' fish. He only imports from Stendker in Germany. He carries a Stendker Tefe's. They look nothing like wild Tefes, but to me they look the closest to wilds as you can get.

    Wilds are very hard to keep and breed without perfect water conditions. Even in perfect conditions it is hard to give them what they need to be comfortable enough to breed. I think that Pat once had wilds breed for her.

    I have been waiting to see an up-date from you. I thought that you would have better news about the water problem. I'm sad for you. You worked very hard. In your case I would buy smaller fish and see how they do. I'm rooting for you!

    That's actually quite amusing that you mention Hans, as I was just on his website today after not having been in quite some time and I do in fact think I will go with Hans -I just need to check and see what his shipping charges would be (I can imagine, similar to most!).

    I am feeling a little less concerned about the water situation recently, have been chatting with different people and it sounds like as long as the filter is mature and the water changes are done and Prime is used, then the ammonia will be taken care of. Adding a filter into the ageing barrel will just make it even easier. We will see!

    Thanks for the information about the Tefe - I had a look at them and I think I do actually prefer the look of the Alenquer - however, while I was browsing around Han's page this morning, I came across a type I haven't really seen before - the Dark Angel and I am totally and utterly head over heels in love. I covet! I had been thinking I would stick to just one or two different types, but at this rate I may be getting one of each as I don't know if I can choose... I also saw his Silver Pigeonblood and that is another one that is ridiculously beautiful. Along with cobalt, checkerboard, snakeskins, eruptions..... you know how it goes. But I will for sure be trying to get at least one Dark Angel and a Silver or a Blue Pigeonblood!

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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pudmuppy View Post
    That's actually quite amusing that you mention Hans, as I was just on his website today after not having been in quite some time and I do in fact think I will go with Hans -I just need to check and see what his shipping charges would be (I can imagine, similar to most!).

    I am feeling a little less concerned about the water situation recently, have been chatting with different people and it sounds like as long as the filter is mature and the water changes are done and Prime is used, then the ammonia will be taken care of. Adding a filter into the ageing barrel will just make it even easier. We will see!

    Thanks for the information about the Tefe - I had a look at them and I think I do actually prefer the look of the Alenquer - however, while I was browsing around Han's page this morning, I came across a type I haven't really seen before - the Dark Angel and I am totally and utterly head over heels in love. I covet! I had been thinking I would stick to just one or two different types, but at this rate I may be getting one of each as I don't know if I can choose... I also saw his Silver Pigeonblood and that is another one that is ridiculously beautiful. Along with cobalt, checkerboard, snakeskins, eruptions..... you know how it goes. But I will for sure be trying to get at least one Dark Angel and a Silver or a Blue Pigeonblood!
    So many beautiful fish to choose from. I had the Dark Angel on my wish list. There is an Asian version of this fish, Mercury. You might take a look at them on Kenny's site. I began raising and breeding wild Heckel discus. Went away from it for a time. When I came back I chose the hybrid colors. I would get the Dark Angel, however. For me I am transitioning back to wild cross varieties but the Dark Angel, or Mercury, is still number one on my list when I get more room. By the way the Alenquer is a wild cross. I have 3 different ones in my tank. Look for the Red Alenquer with halo one day.

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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Haha from wilds to one of the newer strains out there!

    Regardless it'll be great! I think you are on the right track with the water, a mature sponge in your aging barrel and prime when you add it to the tank you should be in a good spot!

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    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by peewee1 View Post
    So many beautiful fish to choose from. I had the Dark Angel on my wish list. There is an Asian version of this fish, Mercury. You might take a look at them on Kenny's site. I began raising and breeding wild Heckel discus. Went away from it for a time. When I came back I chose the hybrid colors. I would get the Dark Angel, however. For me I am transitioning back to wild cross varieties but the Dark Angel, or Mercury, is still number one on my list when I get more room. By the way the Alenquer is a wild cross. I have 3 different ones in my tank. Look for the Red Alenquer with halo one day.
    I had a look at the Mercury too, thanks for the name! Also beautiful.... it's crazy how gorgeous these fish are. I am starting to wonder if one day I might be confident enough to try wilds, and/or altum angels too, all absolutely stunning. I had a look for the Red Alenquer with halo on google... oh my! You aren't helping me decide! I also have been looking at alenquer cupeua... not sure if that's just another name or a slightly different color profile, but ugh, too pretty.....

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    Registered Member Pudmuppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Haha from wilds to one of the newer strains out there!

    Regardless it'll be great! I think you are on the right track with the water, a mature sponge in your aging barrel and prime when you add it to the tank you should be in a good spot!
    I raise my hand up and confess I am a professional artist with a huge interest in color, and am also a magpie when it comes to shiny things so yes.... from wilds to dark angels is not surprising I am trying to decide if I want to be sensible and just start with a few colors, or a wild looking group, or try one of each in the anticipation that there is probably going to be some losses anyway and then in the future I can make a more certain decision.... Don't know, but it is fun deciding!

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    Default Re: Hello and a couple of questions

    You look like an artist, Ally.
    Mama Bear

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