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Thread: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

  1. #16
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    thomas

    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    011RWITable.jpg

    I found a chart that I think illustrates ,numerically, something that struck me intuitively.
    There is a serious diminishing return scenario at play for water changes which is visible here in the lower left corner of this chart. The author of the chart has made the lower left corner red to mark an environment that is too clean for a typical tank to have a healthy amount of bacteria. Now, this chart isn't made with discus in mind, (the author says for he considers value between 15 and and 45 are ideal for him) so lets say for discus we want a 5 to 10 range. Well, we can do 30% every 3 days and we are down to a 10. But, for all the people who claim to do 70-80 percent daily, which has been claimed in this thread, you are wasting a ton of water (if your goal is removing nitrates). A 25% water change daily schedule results in a 4 while 70% results in a 1. Even 50% daily comes out at 2.

    This chart also leaves out another consideration. When you are doing water changes at short intervals, you should also start to consider that you aren't just removing nitrates. You are also removing nitrites and ammonia, which, once removed, will not be turned into nitrate. Take a little time to vacuum your tank and now you are removing the waste which usurps the cycle entirely. (this doesn't affect longer intervals because the bacteria starts transforming waste as its produced, which sets naturally small cap for what can be removed)

    Where this chart fails is in the compounding factor of the waste that is left behind. This will mostly affect the smaller percentages, but that can be fixed by doing a larger water change once every (x) number over changes. However, if anyone here is seriously doing anything more than 50% every two days, then you are pretty much providing your fish with a forever un-cycled tank.

    I have been keeping fish for over a decade now, but I have never kept discus specifically, so, I have no experience to go off of here. I have only my research and this thread. From this thread, I get the feeling that doing a 30% every 3-4 days is a shameful bare minimum even for a fairly under-stocked tank... Are discus seriously this sensitive?
    Last edited by thomas h; 06-30-2019 at 05:51 AM. Reason: image upload issues

  2. #17

    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    Absolutely correct a forever uncycled tank which eventually results in illness as you can see reported by the big water changers.

    Jeanne

  3. #18
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    You said the answer yourself. This chart is not made with Discus in mind. And BTW, what you said about an continually uncycled filter is not true. My filters are totally cycled and I have even done flopping on the bottom WC daily in a 30 gallon QT tank with 5 adult Discus until the filter caught up and I was able to cut down to 50 percent daily.

    This forum is dedicated to Discus only. We have found though experience what works and what does not work to keep the fish healthy. We give people our knowledge freely because we want folks to have a good experience with Discus.

    Also, Discus are not sensitive. Their needs are just different from most tropical fish. Give them what makes them feel good and they will be healthy and happy and you will be happy to. Or try it your own way and find out if it works for you over the long haul. We're always open to new ways of doing things.
    Mama Bear

  4. #19
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    ..... I was able to cut down to 50 percent daily. ... ....We have found though experience what works and what does not work to keep the fish healthy.... .... Discus are not sensitive.

    I cant help but see mixed messages here. at 50% w/c daily with nitrate free change water i would be absolutely stunned if your tank even registers any nitrate on a test. if you take the amount of food you feed your fish in a day and consider that you are cleaning up excess food, and cleaning up any fish waste, removing half the ammonia, half the nitrite , and half the nitrate *every day*..... is the even going to be any nitrate? and if you stopped cleaning the tank for a couple days, would there really be a bed of bacteria to handle the temporary build up of ammonia and nitrites?

    if your experience has guided you to see it necessary to change this much water, how can you say discus aren't sensitive? it would seem to me that the only thing they aren't sensitive to is claustrophobia when god comes along remove 98% of their living quarters every day.

  5. #20
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    Thomas, I'm not here to argue with you. Get the Discus and do what you think is right for them. We'll still be here if you run into problems.

    BTW, my tanks have a pH of 7.2, my ammonia is 0, my nitrite is 0 and my nitrate is 5.
    Last edited by LizStreithorst; 06-30-2019 at 05:23 PM.
    Mama Bear

  6. #21
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    well, to shift gears then, i am making progress on the hardware front. i realized that rather than buying a 100+ dollar tank and then have to rig up a float system, i could just use a water softener tank, which i currently have 5 of laying around waiting for junk day. we install a lot of water softeners. the softener tank comes with its own float shut-off and even uses the same tubing as my R/O system. it should hold just under 30 gallons. a little dirty on the outside, but the inside is spotless. so now its just waiting for the R/O system to drain and connecting it in. ill probably check the LFS tomorrow and see if the have a suitable pump i can drop into the storage tank to pump the water into the aquarium, then my last hurdle to this system will be finishing the drain... and i am dreading that. my crawlspace is about 1 foot tall underneath where my aquarium is and its wet under the from all the rains this year. which reminds me, i need to fix my gutters....

    Resized_20190630_173600_9303.jpg
    Last edited by thomas h; 06-30-2019 at 06:28 PM. Reason: puncuation

  7. #22
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas h View Post
    I cant help but see mixed messages here. at 50% w/c daily with nitrate free change water i would be absolutely stunned if your tank even registers any nitrate on a test. if you take the amount of food you feed your fish in a day and consider that you are cleaning up excess food, and cleaning up any fish waste, removing half the ammonia, half the nitrite , and half the nitrate *every day*..... is the even going to be any nitrate? and if you stopped cleaning the tank for a couple days, would there really be a bed of bacteria to handle the temporary build up of ammonia and nitrites?

    if your experience has guided you to see it necessary to change this much water, how can you say discus aren't sensitive? it would seem to me that the only thing they aren't sensitive to is claustrophobia when god comes along remove 98% of their living quarters every day.
    The daily water change is not only for remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from the water. Do yourself a favor and use a paper towel to wipe down a quarter side of the tank. You will see what I mean. There are lot of slimy stuff build up everywhere in the tank. I believe those slimy stuff are from the discus slime coat, protein from the food we feed the fish and bacteria. They will continuous to accumulate until we wipe down the sides of the tank during WC.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    You said the answer yourself. This chart is not made with Discus in mind. And BTW, what you said about an continually uncycled filter is not true. My filters are totally cycled and I have even done flopping on the bottom WC daily in a 30 gallon QT tank with 5 adult Discus until the filter caught up and I was able to cut down to 50 percent daily.

    This forum is dedicated to Discus only. We have found though experience what works and what does not work to keep the fish healthy. We give people our knowledge freely because we want folks to have a good experience with Discus.

    Also, Discus are not sensitive. Their needs are just different from most tropical fish. Give them what makes them feel good and they will be healthy and happy and you will be happy to. Or try it your own way and find out if it works for you over the long haul. We're always open to new ways of doing things.
    Liz, I totally agree with you. Discus are not sensitive all all. Actually they are very easy to keep as long as you follow the basic rules. Constant the PH, temperature and large daily water change (70-80%). The discus will eat like a pig and grow to big dinner plate in no time

  9. #24
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: contemplating discus. can i do it with my current set up?

    Quote Originally Posted by eugenefish View Post
    The daily water change is not only for remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from the water. Do yourself a favor and use a paper towel to wipe down a quarter side of the tank. You will see what I mean. There are lot of slimy stuff build up everywhere in the tank. I believe those slimy stuff are from the discus slime coat, protein from the food we feed the fish and bacteria. They will continuous to accumulate until we wipe down the sides of the tank during WC.
    yes, it's more than nitrate. TDS and DOC indeed. It's a fish tank, not a river.

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