Death Diagnosis?

[Rolla P]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I am not sure what started the problem. 2 of my discus are listing having trouble keeping upright one has since died

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds). Slime from gill, briefly. I mean, it was there for a few hours and then dissipated. The main symptom appears to be listing. Staying in one place and from time to time leaning at an angle. Or head standing. But also playing from time to time


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Epsom salt



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish. 55 gallon ,,,
6 8cm Stendker, 20 cardinal tetra, 5 sterbai cory. 450L/120gal


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% Twice weekly

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
The tank has been running for a year. The filter has been cycled for a year and some months I did have substrate but it has been running BB for the past 3 weeks

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing. Have aging barrel , heater and air stone.
I don't have the facilities to age my water. My PH swings from 7.2 to 6.8

8. Parameters and water source;
Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 10ppm

[slicksta]

What was the process for removing the substrate?
What do you feed?

[danotaylor]

At 8cm your stendkers are juvenile. If your tank has been running for over a year when did you add them? Have you added any new additions? When mixing the fish on your stock list did you observe any quarantine procedure? If so, tell us about it please. Cheers

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Rolla, did the issues with your discus start right after you removed the substrate? There is a careful process for removing substrate so no harm is done to the fish. The fish are removed to a bucket with air and heater, the water drained and substrate removed. Tank is refilled with clean water (heated and aged) and the fish added back to the tank.

Also you really should age your water. The downward swing of the ph is an ongoing stressor...especially with juvies.

Pat

[Sturiosoma]

Since you cannot age your water as all of us can't how about trying smaller more frequent changes to prevent a ph swing, and maybe add a aquaclear hang on to your tank. Jeanne

[Sturiosoma]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I am not sure what started the problem. 2 of my discus are listing having trouble keeping upright one has since died

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds). Slime from gill, briefly. I mean, it was there for a few hours and then dissipated. The main symptom appears to be listing. Staying in one place and from time to time leaning at an angle. Or head standing. But also playing from time to time


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Epsom salt



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish. 55 gallon ,,,
6 8cm Stendker, 20 cardinal tetra, 5 sterbai cory. 450L/120gal


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% Twice weekly

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
The tank has been running for a year. The filter has been cycled for a year and some months I did have substrate but it has been running BB for the past 3 weeks

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing. Have aging barrel , heater and air stone.
I don't have the facilities to age my water. My PH swings from 7.2 to 6.8

8. Parameters and water source;
Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 10ppm

Why is there no question about filtration, or do you check your water parameters regularly, do you use a water conditioner that will remove chlorimines, do you feed a balanced diet, meat and greens, there's a lot missing here. Jeanne

[Rolla P]

What was the process for removing the substrate?
What do you feed?

I feed a variety of foods from Hikari to NLS to Omega one.

At 8cm your stendkers are juvenile. If your tank has been running for over a year when did you add them? Have you added any new additions? When mixing the fish on your stock list did you observe any quarantine procedure? If so, tell us about it please. Cheers

I think I misunderstood the question. The tank has been running for a little over two months. I haven't added any other fish and all the fish currently came from the same source.

Hi Rolla, did the issues with your discus start right after you removed the substrate? There is a careful process for removing substrate so no harm is done to the fish. The fish are removed to a bucket with air and heater, the water drained and substrate removed. Tank is refilled with clean water (heated and aged) and the fish added back to the tank.

Also you really should age your water. The downward swing of the ph is an ongoing stressor...especially with juvies.

Pat

Unfortunately I don't have the facilities to store 250L of water. I have a tds, PH, and temperature pen. The discus were moved to a 60L tub in their own water with an airstone and heater while the substrate was removed. They were acclimated over the course of an hour before being put back into the main aquarium.

The PH of my tank is slightly higher than the water source. So when mixed it averages out to 7 despite the water source being 6.8 or 6.9. I would say with some degree of confidence that I don't think it's an issue of PH given to how they take to each WC.

..........

I'm quite stressed about it. There doesn't appear to be any physical signs that I can see with the naked eye. I should also add that at times I see the discus "jerk" forwards for want of a better word.

[slicksta]

Since you feed a variety of food and all processed, I don't think that is the problem.
Typically frozen, homemade or Freezedried can sometimes cause problems...especially with a substrate.
That said it might be a bacterial infection... And though it sounds like you did it correctly, sometimes when you have a major stir up of things, this can happen.
You can treat with salt and something like Furan 2, a broad spectrum antibiotic.
Maybe someone can chime in on the best salt amount... But I understand 1 - 5 ppt is safe. So the middle of the road would be 3g/litter

Tank temperature?

Any Doctors in the house?

[Second Hand Pat]

I agreed with John on a combo Furan 2 and salt. Dose Furan 2 per instructions for at least four days with a daily water change of 50% and redose Furan 2 (for the tank volume) and salt @ 2/3 tablespoons per 10 gallons.
Pat

[slicksta]

I agreed with John on a combo Furan 2 and salt. Dose Furan 2 per instructions for at least four days with a daily water change of 50% and redose Furan 2 (for the tank volume) and salt @ 2/3 tablespoons per 10 gallons.
Pat

Pat
Do you mean 2 to 3 Tblsp per 10 gallon?
2/3 tablespoon seems kinda low from what I remember.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat
Do you mean 2 to 3 Tblsp per 10 gallon?
2/3 tablespoon seems kinda low from what I remember.

Trying not to scare anybody lol
Pat

[jeep]

The level of salt depends on the level of illness. I use 3-5 TBS per 10 as a stress reliever when nitrates or ammonia are present, which in your case nitrates are. For bacterial issues, I up it to anywhere from 7-10 per 10g. I never use it when things are good, only when I suspect an issue...

I think in your case, there are 2 issues working against you, bi-weekly water changes allowing nitrates to climb, and a lack of a water aging barrel which produces ph swings when water changes are performed. The two combined may be creating stress and could be making them more susceptible to nitrate poisoning.

I would up the water changes to 2 x 25% daily (am and pm) and add salt at 3-5 TS per 10g until nitrates are <5 and then for a few days after...

[Rolla P]

I'm afraid Furan 2 isn't available here. What is the active ingredient(s)?

I'm in the UK.

[danotaylor]

Nitrofurazone. Google Fish Care TM. They're based in the Netherlands and ship internationally. I was on their site last night. Didn't buy though cause I doubt US customs would let it through without a prescription. You should be good from the UK

[slicksta]

I'm afraid Furan 2 isn't available here. What is the active ingredient(s)?

I'm in the UK.

I believe Dan is correct... It's general description is a broad spectrum antibiotic.
Can you set up a smaller hospital tank? Reason being two fold. Smaller tank will be easier/cheaper to treat. And some antibiotics can damage the beneficial bacteria colony in your filter.