Jack Wattley Reps Advocate 20% WC Weekly?

[farebox]

I have learned to keep discus you have to do water changes more than 20%. If you don't want to commit, then the fish will suffer in the long run I think. Most people here on SD do water changes on an constant basis and that's just the fact of this hobby. I think we live an age when people are always trying to do something for less time and spend time online with social media too much, just my two cents from an 70 yr. person whom been keeping freshwater tanks well over 50 yrs....

[eugenefish]

I have learned to keep discus you have to do water changes more than 20%. If you don't want to commit, then the fish will suffer in the long run I think. Most people here on SD do water changes on an constant basis and that's just the fact of this hobby. I think we live an age when people are always trying to do something for less time and spend time online with social media too much, just my two cents from an 70 yr. person whom been keeping freshwater tanks well over 50 yrs....

[Tanja]

I just came across this thread and wanted to add a few cents. Besides for the factors mentioned before (stocking, feeding etc.), a lot of your need for water changes depends on your water source. If you're doing RO water, and are able to keep your pH consistent you could get away with 90% daily water changes. I personally use tap water which in my case happens to be very low in carbonate hardness, and for this reason the pH will start falling as soon as I put it in my cycled tank. For this reason I do 25% water changes so as not to affect the pH, which coming into the tank is at 7.6. In the tank it would quickly fall but stays stable at 6.8 with my 25% daily water changes. My fish got very sick early on because I was exposing them to constant fluctuations in pH by doing 75% water changes.

Another rule of thumb I follow is whenever the water quality is better in the tank than it is coming off the tap, I will not do a water change. Tap water treated with chloramines will release ammonia at 2 ppm as a byproduct of dechlorination. This conversion will automatically contribute to nitrates and the whole process of being chronically exposed to ammonia is a stressor to these delicate fish (yes I know prime claims to "detoxify" ammonia but all it really does is converts it into ammonium which is still harmful expecially to discus, especially if they're exposed to it daily in large quantities). This is another reason I do 25% water changes more frequently rather than 50% less frequently.

P.S. I keep 4 happy discus in 90 gallon tank so I'm able to get away with it. Absolutely no aggression either because they have plenty of room.

[Willie]

Gabe is not raising discus, he's selling them. Whether it grows or not is not his concern.

Willie

[jeep]

Gabe is not raising discus, he's selling them. Whether it grows or not is not his concern.

Willie

Exactly!!

I'd like to see a "breeder", as opposed to a seller, using the name Wattley produce a quality discus while changing 20% weekly. To teach someone new to this hobby these things is pure negligence!

[fljones3]

Exactly!!

I'd like to see a "breeder", as opposed to a seller, using the name Wattley produce a quality discus while changing 20% weekly. To teach someone new to this hobby these things is pure negligence!

There are several videos where Gabe mentions WC. The 20% is in his own established planted tank, only 4 adult discus in a large tank if I remember correctly, and low feedings. Breeding and growouts are different and more frequent. I am in no case defending or not defending Whattley discus just trying to adjust perspective.

For disclosure, I have purchased 6 adult Wilds from him for my 75g. Gabe expressed some concern about it being overcrowded after sand, a piece of driftwood, and sponge filters. I assured him that I was doing WC 3-5x a week. He said, that in that case, he was fine. He is pretty strong on the 1 adult discus per 10 gallons of water.

[jeep]

There are several videos where Gabe mentions WC. The 20% is in his own established planted tank, only 4 adult discus in a large tank if I remember correctly, and low feedings. Breeding and growouts are different and more frequent. I am in no case defending or not defending Whattley discus just trying to adjust perspective.

For disclosure, I have purchased 6 adult Wilds from him for my 75g. Gabe expressed some concern about it being overcrowded after sand, a piece of driftwood, and sponge filters. I assured him that I was doing WC 3-5x a week. He said, that in that case, he was fine. He is pretty strong on the 1 adult discus per 10 gallons of water.

Thanks for clarifying and that makes good sense. I had a hard time believing Gabe would promote this as routine. The problem is that many people latch on to the "20% weekly" and make it gospel. I've even seen people trash this forum as being arrogant and condescending because we promote regular water changes.

[Sturiosoma]

I truly believe it comes down to monitoring your parameters, many people take it as gospel that you have to do huge water changes if you monitor your water, and there's no reason why you wouldn't have a test kit to do that why throw away good water, the more time spent in the tank the more stress the fish experience, and you also have to consider that Jack Whatley made a living of raising discus going so far as going to the amazon and collecting wild discus.

Jeanne

[jeep]

Gabe is not Jack Wattley and he was a huge advocate for regular water changes

[danotaylor]

Bacterial counts and other disease causing pathogens cannot be monitored with test kits. Clean water keeps the discus immunity strong and able to fight off these pathogens that are present in almost every closed system aquarium in the planet. It is not merely about nitrate managment., though nitrates do potentiate risk as far as immune strength goes. On this forum there is hundreds if not thousands of testimonies from real people regarding the outcomes of skimping and being diligent with large frequent water changes. Each to his own of course, but many who have resisted the clear evidence shown here have later been humbled. Some have owned it, others just disappear...

[jeep]

Exactly! While there is merit in regular testing, it's ultimately having confidence in your own water supply and routine. I would never tell someone new to skip water changes simply because someone else does. To be successful with discus, you must begin with the basics. Then you can fine tune your personal routine... And if you are breeding or even starting with very young ones, water changes are an absolute must!

[fljones3]

Bacterial counts and other disease causing pathogens cannot be monitored with test kits. Clean water keeps the discus immunity strong and able to fight off these pathogens that are present in almost every closed system aquarium in the planet. It is not merely about nitrate managment., though nitrates do potentiate risk as far as immune strength goes. On this forum there is hundreds if not thousands of testimonies from real people regarding the outcomes of skimping and being diligent with large frequent water changes. Each to his own of course, but many who have resisted the clear evidence shown here have later been humbled. Some have owned it, others just disappear...

Agree. I would be doing my WC regardless of anyone else advice. I resisted aging my water but after losing 2/3 of my tank I had a change of heart. Now, having aged water, I would never go back to straight tap.

[danotaylor]

And you're a valuable asset to the SD community Frank...glad you're still here sir!!

[fljones3]

And you're a valuable asset to the SD community Frank...glad you're still here sir!!

Thanks Daniel!

[Second Hand Pat]

I truly believe it comes down to monitoring your parameters, many people take it as gospel that you have to do huge water changes if you monitor your water, and there's no reason why you wouldn't have a test kit to do that why throw away good water, the more time spent in the tank the more stress the fish experience, and you also have to consider that Jack Whatley made a living of raising discus going so far as going to the amazon and collecting wild discus.

Jeanne

Hi Jeanne, water is way more complex then a few simple tests. Please read this thread to understand why water is so important http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...-Are-Important.
Pat