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Thread: Need help with filter for tap water

  1. #1
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    Default Need help with filter for tap water

    I am currently using 100% RO for all of my water changes, but this is becoming expensive. Due to the wasteful nature of RO systems, and the cost of R/O Right, I am trying to find a better, more economical way of filtering my tap water to allow me to forego the RO. I was thinking of just getting 3 RO canisters and a bracket and using them as a water filter, similar to an RO system, but without the membrane. I would use a sediment filter, GAC filter, and a carbon block. Would this be enough to make the water suitable for Discus. I can't use straight tap water, because the water here is quite terrible. I am not worried about the hardness so much, but the cleanliness of the water.

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    Registered Member cooper666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    I suppose it depends on what you are trying to filter out.

    If its dirty, sediment then add more mechanical filters.

    If its chlorine that you want to remove and there is very low sediment then one 20ish micron filter followed by a couple of carbon filters should work OK. No matter what you do it is extremely important to test for chlorine, don't just assume that the carbon has worked. The faster you push water through carbon, the less chlorine it will remove.

    If your water is full of nitrates, then RO may be the best option.

    I hope this helps.

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    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    During the Toledo Water Crisis several years ago I nearly lost all of my fish due to Microcystins that were present in the water coming from the lake due to enormous summertime blue green algae blooms. The local treatment plant adjusted its chemical composition so radically that I nearly lost all of my fish on several occasions. Slow pre filtering through a 5 lb carbon bag was the only thing that enabled me to use the water. I ran it through the carbon at a reasonably slow rate so the carbon would grab ahold of of the chemicals and impurities that were present. I still needed to use up to 5 times the normal dose of prime to make the water safe for my fish.

    All that to say is I believe carbon pre-filtering would be a viable solution to your water quality problems but it would be wise to test it on a fish or 2 in a smaller tank.

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    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    Lyle, can you define "terrible water"? All municipal water companies in the USA must adhere to certain standards created by the government.

    Usually people are concerned about the hardness, but you are not. I'm wondering what else may be in your water that you are concerned about...

    And just remember, a carbon block or pre-filter will not remove chloramines so carbon isn't really necessary unless the water is actually dirty. You will still want to use a water conditioner.

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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by jeep View Post
    Lyle, can you define "terrible water"? All municipal water companies in the USA must adhere to certain standards created by the government.

    Usually people are concerned about the hardness, but you are not. I'm wondering what else may be in your water that you are concerned about...

    And just remember, a carbon block or pre-filter will not remove chloramines so carbon isn't really necessary unless the water is actually dirty. You will still want to use a water conditioner.
    That is the problem, no one TRULY knows what all is in the water here. The Water company here is in a major lawsuit/criminal investigation. The owner has been indicted on a nnumber of charges due to the issues we have with our water. I can tell you that our water regularly has a TDS of over 700, well above the legal limit. I do know that they do not use chloramines here, just chlorine, so that is quite easy to deal with.

    I just looked up the water quality report from last year (though the numbers may be fudged, hence part of the reason for the $100 million lawsuit from the state). It shows that there is Chlorine, Arsenic, Barium, Chromium, Flouride, Nitrate, Sodium, Radium, Lead, and Uranium in our water.

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    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    Well, ok then. I am convinced, lol!!!

    I hope you are drinking bottled water as well...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    Nope, Filteres, Softened, RO water for me.

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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    I went ahead and ordered all of the parts I need to set up a filter inline for an AWC system. I should have most everything today and hope to get it installed and tested this weekend. I will try to get pictures and let you all know how it goes.

    The plan is to use a water spigot that is located on the outside of the house just a couple of feet from the tank. I have a hose to 1/4" adapter for the spigot. The water will pass through the sediment and carbon filters before going into the ATO reservoir where prime will be dosed. The water will not be able to age for 24 hours, but I think it should be ok since it will be changing small amounts constantly. The water will slowly drain outside the house where I will be burying a pipe that runs to the wash behind the house. based on my current setup, which is very similar just with brutes instead of automated, this could change ~150g/day.

  9. #9
    Registered Member cooper666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    I am setting up a similar filter to you - Tap water > Activated carbon >Fish tank sump > Overflow (waste)

    I think good GAV is your second best option to RO regarding removal of all sorts of nasty stuff, will not help with the TDS though. 700ppm is pretty salty.

    Is your tap water turbid? If not I'd scrap the sediment filter and replace it with a 5 micron carbon filter, followed by one or more 0.5 micron carbon block filters. Why dose prime after the carbon? Does it have EDTA or similar in it?

    Things that I'm considering with my setup

    -Continual overflow is very inefficient compared to removing a "chunk" of water and replacing it, therefore a larger quantity of water is required, this extra water will require heating, thus, water consumption + power consumption increases

    -Im worried that the carbon will become spent and I'll dose my fish with chlorine accidentally. I'm looking for a constant chlorine monitor system, but apart from ORP monitors (which I hate) there isn't much available. Either way, I know that regular testing for chlorine in the incoming will be necessary or one day I will fry my fish, guaranteed. To soften the blow of accidental chlorine in the tank, I plan to put the inlet at the beginning of my biofilter (MBBR). This will help to degas the water and if any chlorine comes through it should burn itself out on the bio filter bacteria, softening the blow to the fish.

    -If you push water through the filter fast, there is more chance of chlorine making its way into the tank. I've deliberately restricted the filter piping to 4mm lines, which restrict the maximum flow rate through the filters. If someone accidentally opens the valve, It won't exceed the de-chlorinating capacity the filters. (I hope)

    Personally, I really like the idea of constant exchange, however, there are risks which cant be ignored. IMO the most important thing is to test, test, test, test........., you get the idea.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Need help with filter for tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by cooper666 View Post
    I am setting up a similar filter to you - Tap water > Activated carbon >Fish tank sump > Overflow (waste)

    I think good GAV is your second best option to RO regarding removal of all sorts of nasty stuff, will not help with the TDS though. 700ppm is pretty salty.

    Is your tap water turbid? If not I'd scrap the sediment filter and replace it with a 5 micron carbon filter, followed by one or more 0.5 micron carbon block filters. Why dose prime after the carbon? Does it have EDTA or similar in it?

    Things that I'm considering with my setup

    -Continual overflow is very inefficient compared to removing a "chunk" of water and replacing it, therefore a larger quantity of water is required, this extra water will require heating, thus, water consumption + power consumption increases

    -Im worried that the carbon will become spent and I'll dose my fish with chlorine accidentally. I'm looking for a constant chlorine monitor system, but apart from ORP monitors (which I hate) there isn't much available. Either way, I know that regular testing for chlorine in the incoming will be necessary or one day I will fry my fish, guaranteed. To soften the blow of accidental chlorine in the tank, I plan to put the inlet at the beginning of my biofilter (MBBR). This will help to degas the water and if any chlorine comes through it should burn itself out on the bio filter bacteria, softening the blow to the fish.

    -If you push water through the filter fast, there is more chance of chlorine making its way into the tank. I've deliberately restricted the filter piping to 4mm lines, which restrict the maximum flow rate through the filters. If someone accidentally opens the valve, It won't exceed the de-chlorinating capacity the filters. (I hope)

    Personally, I really like the idea of constant exchange, however, there are risks which cant be ignored. IMO the most important thing is to test, test, test, test........., you get the idea.
    I plan to dose prime to ensure that no chlorine gets past the filters and into the tank. I just feel that this would be the easiest way to ensure that there is no harm to the fish if that happens. The filter is fed by 1/4" RO tubing and this seems to be plenty restrictive to the rate of flow through the filters. My main concern at this point is that I have NO idea what is in the water after going through the filters.

    I got the filters assembled and attached to the spigot tonight, and then ran some tests. First I filled a plastic cup with water that had not been through the filters so I could get a starting point for the TDS, GH, and KH of the water. I then connected the filter and ran water through it for some time in order to flush the filters thoroughly. Once the filters were flushed, I filled a second cup with filtered water. The results of those tests are as follows:

    Unfiltered water

    TDS = 558
    GH = 14
    KH = 6

    Filtered water

    TDS = 579
    GH = 12
    KH = 5

    As you can see, there seems to have been a very slight reduction in hardness, though this could be due to testing errors or some other unknown factor. Now the only question is - "What is in the water that is causing these readings?". The only way I can think of to find out is to have the water tested, and I wouldn't even know where to have that done. I have invested a pretty good amount of money into this AWC system and really want it to work, but I am concerned about the water, even after passing it through the filters.

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