Geophagus Juvies excreting poop with mucous lining

[hazmat]

Hi folks,

Just a bit of a background information first, I bought a group of 1.75" Geophagus Red Head juvies in May 2019 to grow them out. I added another 6 juvies a couple weeks later which took the total to 11. My initial plan was to grow them for a few months, see how things progress and eventually thin the herd to just 4 good ones. I already had a lone discus, a few guianacaras and some tetras in the tank. I moved the Guianacara fishes to a different tank since they started harassing the first group. Things were looking good, the Geophagus fishes were eating good and they always hung out in a big group. And then came the monkey wrench moment, I added a pair from a group of Manacapuru angels that I had been raising to the above tank. (The Manacapuru angel group used to poop yellow with mucous lining and upon posting it here sometime around Dec' 18, I was advised to treat them with Levamisole since it appeared to be a nematode infestation. I treated them with Levamisole twice a couple weeks apart. The yellow poop was gone but they were shedding the intestinal lining from time to time, eating like pigs all this while)
The next day I noticed something with the Angelfish, it was literally squirting the poop, it was similar to a seahorse giving birth, for the lack of a better analogy. The colour of the poop was dull white and that was the moment I knew that I screwed up big time. And just to double the trouble I added some Columbian tetras without quarantining them and they were putting out stringy white poop too. I removed the Angelfish pair and the tetras and moved them to a holding tank. I suspected it might be spironucleus and started administering the discus and the Geos pellets soaked in a 3% Epsom salt solution for a week. I also treated them with Levamisole for 2 dosages, 2 weeks apart and just finished with 5 days of pellets soaked in 3% Epsom salt solution. They are still excreting their intestinal/mucous lining and they are eating like crazy all this time. 4 juvies have put on some very good size in the 10 weeks that I've had them and another 3 juvies having satisfactory growth and the last 4 without any good progress. I'll fill out the questionnaire to give a better perspective of the things that I've went through. I request you guys to advice me on treating my fish.



1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Geophagus juvies are excreting poop with mucous lining. An angel fish that I added to the tank started squirting poop and then a few days later I started noticing the mucous lining moving around and settling in the bottom of the tank some 6 weeks back.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Darting happens with them very occasionally, maybe when I present myself before the tank without prior warning/in poor external lighting.
The poop looks dark and normal sometimes and the other times it either has multiple curves or a translucent whitish coating on a dark poop. The Geos have shed the lining alone a few times.
All the fishes are eating great and they don't seem to have lost any appetite.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Levamisole for 2 dosages, 2 weeks apart.
5 days of pellets soaked in 3% Epsom salt solution (x2)

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

Tank size - 48"x 18"x 18" - 67 US gallons.

Current Stocking :

4.5" discus (x 1)
Geophagus Red Head Tapajos (x 11) 1.75"-2.25"
Albino Bristlnose Pleco (x1) 1.75"


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

Weekly once, 40-50%


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

The tank has been running for close to six months now.
It was bare bottom up until last week, since then I have added an inch of jbl river sand.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

I have the water in storage for close to a week after collecting from the tap, no additional oxygenation/ agitation prior to adding it to the tank. I add Seachem Prime as per the instructions on the bottle after adding the new water into the tank.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __28'C___

- ph __N/A___

- ammonia reading __N/A__

- nitrite reading __N/A__

- nitrate reading __N/A__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.


- well water ____

- municipal water __100%__

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

The angels and Columbian tetras were the last fishes to be added to the tank


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

10 A.M - NLS Thera A for the Geos & Northfin Cichlid 2mm pellets soaked in Seachem garlic guard for the discus
2 P.M - Northfin veggie formula for the Geos & Northfin Cichlid 2mm pellets soaked in Seachem garlic guard for the discus
6 P.M - NLS Thera A for the Geos
10.30 P.M - Northfin Krill Gold for the Geos & Northfin Cichlid 2mm pellets soaked in Seachem garlic guard for the discus

I have started supplementing them with Australian black worms for the last feeding of the day.

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

https://vimeo.com/351051322
https://vimeo.com/351051099
https://vimeo.com/351050982
https://vimeo.com/351050849
https://vimeo.com/351050656
https://vimeo.com/351050556
https://vimeo.com/351050409
https://vimeo.com/351050208

IMG_1776.jpg

[bluelagoon]

The poop in the pic looks normal to me, for Geos. When I fed Northfin pellets to my geos the poop looks big, clumpy and what appears like a lining. It looks like they use a lot of fish skin in the sinking cichlid pellets that doesn't get fully digested. It also fails the water more so than other foods I have tried, almost as bad as beef heart would. They will benefit from the sand bottom for sure. As long as they're eating well and the other fish the same. I'd just keep up the WC's and wait. If things start to decline, I'd try some metronidazole. You could also up the WC to over 50%. I change about 80-90% aerated aged water once a week, on my Geos.

[bluelagoon]

Ps . Sometimes when you purge fish with epsems salt. It will sometimes look like it's not only coming from their anus but also puke food out. I've had that happen when I over fed halibut roe. They could not digest the shell casings and I had to go the purge route.

[Sturiosoma]

Have you always done the garlic dip, maybe try feeding without that and see what happens.

Jeanne

[hazmat]

Hello sir,

Thank you for your reply, I'll feed them only the NLS pellets for the next few days and will report back. Meanwhile, I'll try to up my water change, the problem is, potable water is rationed in our village here in India, water is an expensive commodity !! I didn't know the NF food messed up the water so much, the discus and the Geos love it, more so than the NLS pellets.

The big poop is from the discus, my concern is the spiralled one from one of the Geos

IMG_1776 edit.jpg

and this lining bit hanging out from the anal opening.

IMG_1769.MOV_000004403.jpg

Hope I don't have to go the Metro route, fingers crossed, thanks a lot sir.

[hazmat]

Hi guys,

Thought I'd update, I have been feeding NLS pellets to the Geos for the past 2 days and some still excrete poop with the mucous lining, so I guess that rules out the food part. I have also transferred the juvenile Geos, the lone discus and the BN pleco to a 15 gallon anticipating that they might require some form of treatment. I do know that its too small a tank to hold these many individuals, but it is the only way I would be able to do 50% water changes everyday. I have added an airstone, a cycled AC 50 HOB filter and a small piece of driftwood to the tank.

It might feel like I'm rushing into things, but I would like to have the Geos and discus back in good health so as to transfer them to the 65 gallon tank. I'll also be scaping the 65 gallon in meantime. I have also bought adequate no of Metronidazole 400mg tablets from a local drug store to use them if the need arises.

I request you folks to guide me on the next course of action. I'm grateful for all the help that I've been getting.

IMG_1851.MOV_000008406.jpg

A small clip :

https://vimeo.com/351770795

[bluelagoon]

Did you also stop feeding epsom salts? Does the discus have the same poop?

[hazmat]

Did you also stop feeding epsom salts? Does the discus have the same poop?

Sir, I've stopped feeding them Epsom salt soaked pellets. The discus poop is dark, thick and it doesn't seem to have the lining and it disintegrates easily when the Geos pick it up for sifting. They same couldn't be said about the Geo poop, the lining will separate from the rest of the poop and move around with the flow.

[bluelagoon]

Can you put all the fish in the bigger tank and treat the whole tank? If one group was infected, they may have passed something on to all your fish. If your going to use the same substrate after the treatment, leave that in the tank your treating. Your angels may have passed Hex to the others. Or you can wait and up your WC's and observe, especially the discus, then treat if need be. Are the angels poop good now? They usually stop eating when a hex infection is more than the fish can handle without intervention.

[bluelagoon]

PS I would take the last option.

[hazmat]

Can you put all the fish in the bigger tank and treat the whole tank? If one group was infected, they may have passed something on to all your fish. If your going to use the same substrate after the treatment, leave that in the tank your treating. Your angels may have passed Hex to the others. Or you can wait and up your WC's and observe, especially the discus, then treat if need be. Are the angels poop good now? They usually stop eating when a hex infection is more than the fish can handle without intervention.

I'll transfer the Geos and the discus to the 65 gallon like you've advised, after rescaping the tank today. I have kept the 2 canister filters running in the 65 gallon and the tank has been fishless for only 2 days, so in all probability it wouldn't have lost its cycle. I do intend to use the same substrate and then some more. I'm holding the Angels in a different tank, I would like to treat them separately and pass them to a friend after making sure they are rid of all the parasites. The angels are eating well and they do excrete poop with mucous lining from time to time.

[hazmat]

Or you can wait and up your WC's and observe, especially the discus, then treat if need be.

PS I would take the last option.

Sir,
I can happily do a 30% daily water change on the 65 gallon for a couple by buying RO water but I came across a study that concluded that partial water changes without medication wouldn't be of much help in treating hex, this makes me a bit sceptical to try this option.
On the other hand, 100% water changes for 10 days straight would nearly wipe out a sixth of my month's earnings and it doesn't make sense to me financially. Even though it pains me to say this, I would rather cull/move the entire Geophagus lot and then treat the Discus in a smaller tank, than spend dough on getting clean water.

If I may, I would very much like to treat the whole tank with the relevant medicine(s) and daily partial water changes for a couple weeks or so according to the treatment protocol. Do let me know if I have the wrong idea and keep the suggestions coming, cheers.

[bluelagoon]

The poop that I'm seeing in those pics would not concern me much. Two days without feeding those filters have lost a lot of benifical bacteria and in all likely hood your going to have a mini cycle. During the past 6 months a lot of old depleted water has been left behind in the tank. It may look clear but a lot has been dissolved in the water and should be removed. Google "old tank syndrome", it may explain things better. You dose the full dose and even a bit more but never less after any amount of WC, but best to do more than 50% WC. It is best to always aerate the water before doing such a large WC. Make sure the lights are off during treatment ;some meds are light sensitive. Clean water is the most important factor; here in Canada we can't buy antibiotics for fish and from my experience clean water and good maintenence is the key to keep a healthy environment. Even if you can't do a big WC on a regular basis try do one every now and then, just to stay away from old tank syndrome, so things don't get out of hand with the tank environment.

[bluelagoon]

I see at least one Geophagus Dicrozoster in the group.

[hazmat]

The poop that I'm seeing in those pics would not concern me much. Two days without feeding those filters have lost a lot of benifical bacteria and in all likely hood your going to have a mini cycle. During the past 6 months a lot of old depleted water has been left behind in the tank. It may look clear but a lot has been dissolved in the water and should be removed. Google "old tank syndrome", it may explain things better. You dose the full dose and even a bit more but never less after any amount of WC, but best to do more than 50% WC. It is best to always aerate the water before doing such a large WC. Make sure the lights are off during treatment ;some meds are light sensitive. Clean water is the most important factor; here in Canada we can't buy antibiotics for fish and from my experience clean water and good maintenence is the key to keep a healthy environment. Even if you can't do a big WC on a regular basis try do one every now and then, just to stay away from old tank syndrome, so things don't get out of hand with the tank environment.

Hello sir,

I went through an "Old tank syndrome" article and I have come to the realisation that I have been taking a few things for granted all these years. I'll make the necessary changes with regards to water changes and the overall maintenance of the aquarium.

I have re-scaped the 65 gallon tank and the water is a bit hazy right now. I will be transferring the Geos and Discus from the smaller tank a bit later.

Rescaped FTS :

IMG_1867.jpg

IMG_1874.jpg

So, what should be my next course of action ? Should I observe them for a few weeks and hold off on treating them before I see any signs of deterioration in their health or appetite ? Appreciate your inputs on this, thanks.