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Thread: A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

  1. #1
    Moderator Team AquaticNerd's Avatar
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    Default A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

    Greetings everyone!

    Long-time (unregistered) lurker here, decided to finally make an account and get everything I've got on my mind sorted.

    A little about my background - I've kept tropical aquariums from around 2003-2011, where I've had various species of fish in various aquariums - Angels, Rainbows, Tetras, Cories, etc.. You know, the standard things that one can usually find their local LPS/LFS. There's not much in terms of specialty stores where I'm from, so I'm stuck to either buying from large chain stores or driving a couple hours north to go to a great specialty LFS. Within that same time, I also kept discus in a high-tech planted aquarium - a fish I've always loved and wanted to have the experience of keeping. Unfortunately, my circumstances changed and I wasn't able to dedicate the time and attention that my little (3-3.5") discus needed, so they ended up being rehomed and I had to take down and sell off all my aquariums and equipment. Also in that time I learned that a planted tank isn't ideal for a grow-out either

    Fast forward to now, life has settled down and I'm ready to get back into the hobby. As I said before, I've been a long-time lurker and have been (literally) drooling over Kenny's Discus for the past two years. I guess my wife got tired of me just talking about it and, without my knowledge, purchased an aquarium for me. Now that I've gotten the "push", I'm all ready to go headfirst into the hobby and hopefully pick up some nice Discus. My plans aren't to grow out juveniles, but to purchase some nice adults (5.5"+) so my wife and I can enjoy their beauty. We can always get more aquariums

    My current aquarium is 48 x 21 x 20, which I've calculated to be about 90 gallons. I'll also have the volume supplemented with a 30 gallon sump.

    I already know about QT, etc. I've got a 40 breeder set up in a separate room for QT, with plans to have a couple sponge filters running in my sump to keep them cycled. I'm also planning on purchasing duplicates of some items that I'll be using to keep one set for QT, one for the main tank, and perhaps a spare for emergencies.

    With that said, I still have a few (or more) questions that I would like to get folks' opinion on before moving forward with some of my purchases since the aquarium is still sitting empty as well as starting off on the right foot for my investment because I want to give these guys the best living quarters possible.

    Now, on to the questions.

    1. Best water conditioner/dechlorinator? Back when I kept fish I strictly used API Stress Coat and was advised against Prime because it could neutralize ammonia, etc during the cycle making it either not cycle at all or stall the cycle. There's also a lot more options now, such as Fritz. Any recommendations?
    2. What's the verdict on "live nitrifying bacteria"? I'm thinking of products such as Dr. Tim's Live Nitrifying Bacteria, Fritz Aquatics 7/Turbo Start, and Marineland Bio-Spira. Again, back when I kept fish, the off-the-shelf bottled bacteria was deemed more like snake oil.
    3. Once my aquarium is cycled, I'm planning on adding the Discus first. Good idea? Bad? Do they still require QT outside of the main aquarium?
    4. Do you still need to deworm all discus, no matter what supplier they come from? I'm planning on buying from Kenny's Discus if that matters. In the case of deworming, what product is ideal? Is Bendazole still a go-to or is there a better product out there? Is it recommended to medicate the food as well as the tank, or just medicate the food such as mixing the Bendazole with a beefheart mix?
    5. When adding dither fish, I've heard talk about adding a "sacrifical lamb" to the QT tank once QT is complete and observe for another 2 weeks just to make sure there are no adverse effects. Is this still common practice?

    Test kits and other gear is supposed to arrive today, so I'll hopefully be able to provide some results. I've already had aged water tested at my LFS and it looks like my pH is right around 7.8 - is this acceptable for discus? I've heard the domestic strains are fine with it, but I get mixed results when researching.

    Thanks for taking the time to look at my topic!

  2. #2
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaticNerd View Post
    Greetings everyone!

    Long-time (unregistered) lurker here, decided to finally make an account and get everything I've got on my mind sorted.

    A little about my background - I've kept tropical aquariums from around 2003-2011, where I've had various species of fish in various aquariums - Angels, Rainbows, Tetras, Cories, etc.. You know, the standard things that one can usually find their local LPS/LFS. There's not much in terms of specialty stores where I'm from, so I'm stuck to either buying from large chain stores or driving a couple hours north to go to a great specialty LFS. Within that same time, I also kept discus in a high-tech planted aquarium - a fish I've always loved and wanted to have the experience of keeping. Unfortunately, my circumstances changed and I wasn't able to dedicate the time and attention that my little (3-3.5") discus needed, so they ended up being rehomed and I had to take down and sell off all my aquariums and equipment. Also in that time I learned that a planted tank isn't ideal for a grow-out either

    Fast forward to now, life has settled down and I'm ready to get back into the hobby. As I said before, I've been a long-time lurker and have been (literally) drooling over Kenny's Discus for the past two years. I guess my wife got tired of me just talking about it and, without my knowledge, purchased an aquarium for me. Now that I've gotten the "push", I'm all ready to go headfirst into the hobby and hopefully pick up some nice Discus. My plans aren't to grow out juveniles, but to purchase some nice adults (5.5"+) so my wife and I can enjoy their beauty. We can always get more aquariums

    My current aquarium is 48 x 21 x 20, which I've calculated to be about 90 gallons. I'll also have the volume supplemented with a 30 gallon sump.

    I already know about QT, etc. I've got a 40 breeder set up in a separate room for QT, with plans to have a couple sponge filters running in my sump to keep them cycled. I'm also planning on purchasing duplicates of some items that I'll be using to keep one set for QT, one for the main tank, and perhaps a spare for emergencies.

    With that said, I still have a few (or more) questions that I would like to get folks' opinion on before moving forward with some of my purchases since the aquarium is still sitting empty as well as starting off on the right foot for my investment because I want to give these guys the best living quarters possible.

    Now, on to the questions.

    1. Best water conditioner/dechlorinator? Back when I kept fish I strictly used API Stress Coat and was advised against Prime because it could neutralize ammonia, etc during the cycle making it either not cycle at all or stall the cycle. There's also a lot more options now, such as Fritz. Any recommendations?
    2. What's the verdict on "live nitrifying bacteria"? I'm thinking of products such as Dr. Tim's Live Nitrifying Bacteria, Fritz Aquatics 7/Turbo Start, and Marineland Bio-Spira. Again, back when I kept fish, the off-the-shelf bottled bacteria was deemed more like snake oil.
    3. Once my aquarium is cycled, I'm planning on adding the Discus first. Good idea? Bad? Do they still require QT outside of the main aquarium?
    4. Do you still need to deworm all discus, no matter what supplier they come from? I'm planning on buying from Kenny's Discus if that matters. In the case of deworming, what product is ideal? Is Bendazole still a go-to or is there a better product out there? Is it recommended to medicate the food as well as the tank, or just medicate the food such as mixing the Bendazole with a beefheart mix?
    5. When adding dither fish, I've heard talk about adding a "sacrifical lamb" to the QT tank once QT is complete and observe for another 2 weeks just to make sure there are no adverse effects. Is this still common practice?

    Test kits and other gear is supposed to arrive today, so I'll hopefully be able to provide some results. I've already had aged water tested at my LFS and it looks like my pH is right around 7.8 - is this acceptable for discus? I've heard the domestic strains are fine with it, but I get mixed results when researching.

    Thanks for taking the time to look at my topic!
    Hi and welcome back to the hobby and discus. Aquatiqnerd .I'm glad that you have decide to join the community instead of just lurking, it's much more interesting this way too .

    My set of oppinions and answers :

    1.As far as I am familiar Prime and Safe (used by most of members here as cheapest conditioner option on the market ) don't neutralize ammonia but just binds it in to another compound making it safe for fish untill the Bio bacteria /Nitrosomonas consumes it and convert it to No 2 .So I think you can use it while you do the ammonia fishless cycle .

    2.Still mixed oppinions on this one .I tend to trust and rely on botteled bacteria when quick start QT tank for new arrivals or for treatments and so far I believe that it makes the Cycling faster and easier on fish .
    Never used Dr.Tims (I use Tetra product ) but I've read some very good user reviews about Dr tims Bacteria .
    Marine folks on my domestic forum swears in Prodibio Biodigest capsules , and I tend to believe they know their chemistry beter than I do ,so it's worth mentioning .

    3.Yes .Best idea is to start discus only and get to know them well and let them acclimate i.e. (3-4 months ) before you add other fish .
    You do not need QT if they go first an straight in to your tank . You need QT to test pathogen compatibility with your discus when you add new fish .

    4.Levamisole for Round worms and Praziquantel for Tapeworms is what we use this days for deworming .
    Kenny is known here At SD forum as a very honest and helpfull persons so I would relly and trust on his advice about the need for deworming .

    5.Any new fish goes 4 weeks alone in QT , and if there is nothing wrong with them , you add one sacrificial Discus for additional 2-3 weeks along with them . IF all goes well after those 6-7 weeks , you introduce new fish to your existing stock . If you experience problems you treat first and make decision wether the new stock is worth risking or not (My last QT test period lasted about 4 months because the new discus and the sacrificial discus displayed some intestinal and bacterial problems prior and during mixing ) .

    and lastly , do you have an aging barrel and a pump prepared for quick and easy Waterchanges ?

    Best of luck with your new journey .

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

    Greetings Filip!

    Thank you so much for the welcome and the detailed responses. This has helped quite a bit, so I'll be able to continue moving forward with my plans.

    Regarding the BB and using it from a bottle - I'll make it an experiment and see where it takes me. I don't see much harm in it at the very least, so if it works it'll just shorten my cycle is all.

    I plan on getting a rubbermaid brute can and an additional pump for waterchanges so I can age my water as well as bring it up to temperature.

    I keep thinking of questions so I hope it's okay that I keep posting them!

    1. What's the rule for heater WPG these days? Back when I kept tropicals, the consensus was 3WPG for heater capacity. Considering my aquarium is 90 gallons, that would make it 300W for a heater. Is this a safe assumption? The aquarium is in my basement - I typically keep the house around 73, so it only needs a 10-13 degree delta. To piggyback on this, what's the recommended heater these days? Eheim Jager? Marineland Precision? Cobalt Aquatics Neo-Therm? I don't mind spending the $$ for the Neo-Therm if it means it'll be better for my fish. My initial plan was to go with two fully capable Eheim Jager heaters (so 2x 300W) and attach them to two Inkbird temperature controllers. I'll have one set to 84 degrees and then set the other to 82 degrees so I'll have a redundant one on backup in case the other set fails.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

    Welcome to the forums! I was a long time lurker as well and i'm happy to finally be part of the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaticNerd View Post

    Now, on to the questions.

    [*]Best water conditioner/dechlorinator? Back when I kept fish I strictly used API Stress Coat and was advised against Prime because it could neutralize ammonia, etc during the cycle making it either not cycle at all or stall the cycle. There's also a lot more options now, such as Fritz. Any recommendations?
    I use Prime and Filip said it best.

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaticNerd View Post
    [*]What's the verdict on "live nitrifying bacteria"? I'm thinking of products such as Dr. Tim's Live Nitrifying Bacteria, Fritz Aquatics 7/Turbo Start, and Marineland Bio-Spira. Again, back when I kept fish, the off-the-shelf bottled bacteria was deemed more like snake oil.
    I've used it in the past and I never felt like if it sped up the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaticNerd View Post
    [*]Once my aquarium is cycled, I'm planning on adding the Discus first. Good idea? Bad? Do they still require QT outside of the main aquarium?
    If they are going in first, it's a good idea. Observe and treat as needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by AquaticNerd View Post
    [*]Do you still need to deworm all discus, no matter what supplier they come from? I'm planning on buying from Kenny's Discus if that matters. In the case of deworming, what product is ideal? Is Bendazole still a go-to or is there a better product out there? Is it recommended to medicate the food as well as the tank, or just medicate the food such as mixing the Bendazole with a beefheart mix?
    I would. Follow Al's de worming procedure.

    Week One: Many Frequent water changes, observe fish behavior, and treat for anything specifically noted******. Be sure all fish are eating well and passing normal feces.
    Week Two: Prophylactic deworming with Praziquantel for tape worms, several days later deworm with general dewormer (levamisole) added to water as 24 hour bath
    Week Three: Repeat Levamisole as 24 hour bath
    Week Four: Let rest, nothing but water changes.
    Week Five: Re-dose with Levamisole as 24 hour bath
    Week Six: Quarantine is over if the fish are looking healthy and eating well.

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaticNerd View Post
    [*]When adding dither fish, I've heard talk about adding a "sacrifical lamb" to the QT tank once QT is complete and observe for another 2 weeks just to make sure there are no adverse effects. Is this still common practice?
    Yes, and it's part of the QT/Deworming process above. Get your least favorable discus as the sacrifice and put him with the new fish and observe for another 3-4 weeks.

  5. #5
    Registered Member cooper666's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

    +1 for bottled bio bacteria having practically no effect on the cycling. I've seen several brands used in commercial aquaculture and I swear they are a big waste of money.
    My tank - http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135251-coopers-6x2x2&highlight=

  6. #6
    Moderator Team AquaticNerd's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Lot Has Changed in 8 years!

    Thanks so much for the insight everyone!

    I'm making a trip to the LFS this weekend to grab the (hopefully) last of the equipment I need so I can get this aquarium wet and cycling. And then it's all a waiting game.

    I appreciate the opinions on bottled bacteria. I bought one just to test it out, but I don't have high hopes for it at all. A better experiment would be to get two identical aquariums and test it out to see which one cycles faster. It's only a matter of time now before this gets going! Off to drool at Kenny's Discus once more. :P

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