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Thread: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

  1. #1
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    Default Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Hello everyone, definitely not fun to be on this part of the forum again...

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish: A few days ago one of my wild discus (now another two are showing similar , yet not as serious behaviour) turned very dark, has clamped fins that look a bit bloody and won't eat or move much.


    2. Symptoms : Her body has quite a few small black ''patches'' and a few (bloody) lesions, a tiny bit of fin rot and small white zit like protrusions from her sides.

    3. What medications/ treatments : Today is day 2 of a white spot/ich treatment ; the main substance in this medication is malachite green. Perhaps this was the wrong plan of action but it definitely seemed like white spot yesterday when I spotted it.

    4-6.Tank/Water: The tank has been running for a year, it is inhabited by 9 wild discus and 10 F1 altums , the discus and the angels still have growing to do. (Yes the tank is overstocked) I now change about ~30% daily


    7. Do you age your water : Yes, I mix R/O and R/O waste water to get a pH of 6.5, and there is no pH swing.


    8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Continuum's ammonia and chlorine neutraliser added directly to my holding tank, for safe measure


    9. Parameters and water source;


    - temp 82,5F

    - ph 6,5

    - ammonia reading 0

    - nitrite reading 0

    - nitrate reading 5

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    ~80% R/O , ~20% waste R/O

    10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently: None in a long time


    11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often: I feed a variety of pellets with high protein, spirulina pellets, flakes, and sometimes FDBW. I feed quite a few times a day , perhaps even 8 , but in small doses


    12. Here's the pictures, I just circled the ''zits'' so that they're a bit more obvious (sorry for the bad photo quality)

    IMG_20191104_165421.jpgIMG_20191104_165423.jpgIMG_20191104_165432.jpgIMG_20191104_170334.jpg

    The fish definitely seem irritated, and the one in the photos which is in the worst shape is not interested in eating at all.
    As a side note, the only thing that has recently changed as far as my water parameters are concerned is the addition of Epsom salts within the aquarium around a week ago but the fish didn't seem irritated by it at all.

    Any help and ideas are much appreciated, I'm starting to worry about them

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    I would not be too concerned about the small black spots, but the white spots and the fin rot, could it have been an accidental ammonia spike? you did say it was overstocked.

    If your tank has been running for a year and temps 82+, I doubt your problem is ick, regardless, the spots on the body do not look like ick. How big is your tank? not sure if you mentioned it above or not, but I could not find it. Can you take a pic of the bloody fin? I would do close to 50% in your case since you have 19 fish in your tank. Not sure the size of it yet but 30% seems low.

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Apologies, I forgot to mention the size, it's a 65 gallon; they'll be getting their bigger home which is going to be triple that size in a few months. An ammonia spike seems bizarre to be honest as I have a stupid amount of biological media, but perhaps that could be the case... I 've been checking for ammonia since the first day this happened , and the test keeps showing 0... Same goes for nitrite. I've been trying to photograph the bloody fin but the fish just won't cooperate. The reason I mentioned the black spots is because they have never appeared before. Any ideas on what the white spots may be? I do have a 25gallon hospital tank up and running 24/7 with a cycled sponge filter ; do you think it'd be a good idea to transfer the fish there?

    P.S.: I am a bit concerned because I have seen a bit of ''itchiness'' and flicking ; this is why I perhaps mistakenly thought of ich/whitespot . Perhaps it's bacterial?

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Sword View Post
    Apologies, I forgot to mention the size, it's a 65 gallon; they'll be getting their bigger home which is going to be triple that size in a few months. An ammonia spike seems bizarre to be honest as I have a stupid amount of biological media, but perhaps that could be the case... I 've been checking for ammonia since the first day this happened , and the test keeps showing 0... Same goes for nitrite. I've been trying to photograph the bloody fin but the fish just won't cooperate. The reason I mentioned the black spots is because they have never appeared before. Any ideas on what the white spots may be? I do have a 25gallon hospital tank up and running 24/7 with a cycled sponge filter ; do you think it'd be a good idea to transfer the fish there?

    P.S.: I am a bit concerned because I have seen a bit of ''itchiness'' and flicking ; this is why I perhaps mistakenly thought of ich/whitespot . Perhaps it's bacterial?
    That would be a good idea since it will reduce some stress from the over crowdedness. And ,holy hell, 19 fish in a 65 . I hope you get your other tank quick. The black spots may be stress related and part of the darkening.

    From my experience, a bloody fin or bloody veins in the fins was Trichodina but I don't see how that would be your case without the introduction of new fish. I really think it is a water quality issue for you and perhaps an ammonia spike despite your parameters being ok.

    I'm not an expert I just share my personal experiences, but let the other guys and gals chime in. I think you just need to up the water change for now, no meds. Perhaps salt to help aid with the body spots and fin repair. Don't use epsom salt.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    You said that you now change 30% daily. What was your prior routine?

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Yeah, 19 in a 65 is absolute bonkers, I know. When I saw the gorgeous F1 altums for sale though I just couldn't resist, I've wanted to have them for a long long time and we never get any ''fancy'' stock like that here in Cyprus at all sadly (Which is also partly the reason I have too many discus too , haha). Is it not bizarre though that only these 3 ones have been affected? I will perhaps add a bit of salt to aid with whatever it is that's bothering the poor things. I still have a very difficult time understanding how the ammonia spike would have come to be, but oh well. Let's just hope that's the problem and everything will be better in a few days hopefully. The only reason I'm not changing more water is that I'm scared,frankly. I had an awful streak of luck when I was changing around 50% daily and an terrible case of whirling wiped out 10 of my previous discus I'll see how everything goes and if nothing changes until tomorrow night I'm moving the big girl and the other 2 guys into the hospital tank.

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando View Post
    You said that you now change 30% daily. What was your prior routine?
    I was changing very little water for the 5 days I had the epsom salts in the aquarium so that the concentration would remain sorta stable without me having to replenish amounts and perhaps overdose.

    As a side note, how much salt would you recommend I dose? I'm afraid of putting too much because these are wild fish after all, and they tend to be a bit more ''sensitive'' to some things.

    EDIT: The bloody fin seems to no longer be bloody and the big girl seems to be much brighter right now ; here's to hoping stuff starts getting better quickly
    Last edited by Amazon Sword; 11-04-2019 at 01:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Sword View Post
    I was changing very little water for the 5 days I had the epsom salts in the aquarium so that the concentration would remain sorta stable without me having to replenish amounts and perhaps overdose.

    As a side note, how much salt would you recommend I dose? I'm afraid of putting too much because these are wild fish after all, and they tend to be a bit more ''sensitive'' to some things.

    EDIT: The bloody fin seems to no longer be bloody and the big girl seems to be much brighter right now ; here's to hoping stuff starts getting better quickly
    I think that you should never go 5 days with only a light wc with the amount of fish in that tank. You can do 1 tbs per 10 gallons as a light concentration (keep in mind the sump/canister water level). It's hard to OD on salt since they can take a very high concentration of it for a short time. Just replace the salt taken out through water changes. So if you do 30% in a 65g, add 2 tbs of salt on each wc. Only do this for a few days until the fin is repaired. Stop the ick med and no reason for Epsom salt in your case.

    Wilds will be ok. My wilds are a bit more finicky than my domestics, but mine have taken good amount of salt with no issues.

    Sorry, I just noticed you feed 8 times a day. More reason for me to think it's water quality. try to get a bigger tank asap or another 55g tank from Petco (cheap) in the meantime, even if they share filters. Or get rid of your hospital tank and replace it with a 55g+ for now so you can split your batch.
    Last edited by Mando; 11-04-2019 at 01:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    I admit that I shouldn't have skipped the water changes but I freak out a bit whenever something bad happens and there seems to be no apparent reason. I'm still worried a bit about her pectoral fin being clamped, but I guess she's in a bit of pain and doesn't want to expose it to any more discomfort. In any case, I've just dosed the salt ; here's to hoping for the best. Thank you very much for your suggestions, I feel much more comfortable with the situation now. Always good to have someone slap some sense into you when you're panicking

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Sword View Post
    I admit that I shouldn't have skipped the water changes but I freak out a bit whenever something bad happens and there seems to be no apparent reason. I'm still worried a bit about her pectoral fin being clamped, but I guess she's in a bit of pain and doesn't want to expose it to any more discomfort. In any case, I've just dosed the salt ; here's to hoping for the best. Thank you very much for your suggestions, I feel much more comfortable with the situation now. Always good to have someone slap some sense into you when you're panicking
    No need to panic! we have each other here . If the fish in the photo was the one that had clamped fins, she/he looks good to me. You can always post here first before dosing any meds never feel you're asking too many questions either. Any weird colored feces or just the fins and spots on the body that was concerning?

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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Just the spots and fins, nothing else. Unfortunately for me, they all poop truckloads of fine poop haha.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Wild discus with small black patches and clamped fins

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Sword View Post
    Just the spots and fins, nothing else. Unfortunately for me, they all poop truckloads of fine poop haha.
    That's good then! lol so just stick to clean water and salt for now.

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