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Thread: sponge or no sponge

  1. #1
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    Default sponge or no sponge

    My pigeon pair spawned in my 55g and wrigglers last night (11th spawn, 3rd time wrigglers). Should I remove the sponge filter?
    On last two spawns (20g) the fry was attracted to the sponge and not attaching.

    I also have an Eheim 2217 which I rigged three spray bars into one long bar across the back length of the tank. I enlarged the holes on the end bar, there is very subtle water movement in the tank, surface water is very calm.
    The 2217 have a pre-filter, will the pre-filter keep fry from being sucked into filter?

    I read some people take out the sponge and some donít, same with lowering the water level.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    I'd recommend you remove the sponge once the fry goes free swimming. The critical period of attachment is < 24 hours. Once they attach, my experience is that you can resume sponge filtration.

    Good luck, Willie
    Why don't I read Harry Potter novels? Because I'm an adult.

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    you can always put white or beige stockings over the sponge.

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    thanks for the advice. I will see if i can find beige or white stockings, if not I will remove sponge. Once they attached do they tend to stay attached and able to find and reattach?
    How long after attachment before I resume with sponge filter?

    What about lowering the water level?

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    1. Before the eggs hatch is, in my experience, a great opportunity to make big water changes and get the tank pristine. Eggs are very tough and can be exposed to air during a water change with no problems.
    2. Not all pigeon blood types have problem with attachment. Unless you know that to happen, I would just shut off the aeration when the fry goes free swimming and see what happens.
    3. If the fry swim away from the parents, then I'd remove the sponge and drop the water level as much as possible.
    4. Once the fry start to feed from the parents, in my experience, they do not leave. At that point, you can refill the tank and add the sponge back.

    Good luck, Willie
    Why don't I read Harry Potter novels? Because I'm an adult.

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    Hi all, thanks for all the wonderful advice. I have three tanks walls covered with white corrugated plastic sheets. I have tried lowering the water level, used foam divider to shrink tank to 1/3, taken black sponge filter out, covered my filter intake with fine white cloth. Fry just don't find the parents, they either starved to death around day four or they just disappears.

    The pair is on their 16th spawn, this time I removed the fry after they hatched and going to try artificial rearing with Big Tucks contraption setup I read here (with slight modification). Wish me luck

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eye gold fish View Post
    Hi all, thanks for all the wonderful advice. I have three tanks walls covered with white corrugated plastic sheets. I have tried lowering the water level, used foam divider to shrink tank to 1/3, taken black sponge filter out, covered my filter intake with fine white cloth. Fry just don't find the parents, they either starved to death around day four or they just disappears.

    The pair is on their 16th spawn, this time I removed the fry after they hatched and going to try artificial rearing with Big Tucks contraption setup I read here (with slight modification). Wish me luck
    Have you tried blue light? Are the PB's white? Maybe the white walls is not ideal in this situation.

    I would try the following, again.

    1. lower water
    2. put a divider to cut the tank in half like you did before (keep filter on the other half)
    3. New step - Turn on blue light.

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando View Post
    Have you tried blue light? Are the PB's white? Maybe the white walls is not ideal in this situation.

    I would try the following, again.

    1. lower water
    2. put a divider to cut the tank in half like you did before (keep filter on the other half)
    3. New step - Turn on blue light.
    I have used blue led light and even placed a white corrugated plastic sheet to further diffuse the light. I also have tried with a low watt incandescent.
    I will try all of the mentioned advice again with next spawn.

    female is a Red Eagle, male is an Orange/Red pigeon they both have lots of white markings. Should I change white walls to something blue?

    thanks,

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    Registered Member + MVP - May 2020 coralbandit's Avatar
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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    I am trying the blue light now with my pair and their fry . 7th or 8th spawn ...

    I refined how I raise my rams using Big Tucks methods !
    I wish you luck .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFp68wjRUU
    ^^ My fish room tour by Richsfishes ^^
    Got rams ?

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    Quote Originally Posted by coralbandit View Post
    I am trying the blue light now with my pair and their fry . 7th or 8th spawn ...

    I refined how I raise my rams using Big Tucks methods !
    I wish you luck .
    Thanks Coralbandit,
    The fry are fully free swimming, very small batch @20. I have started feeding them egg yoke powder mix with raw egg yoke. Not sure if I got the mix right but will see tonight when I get home. Also have bbs hatching for tomorrow's feeding. btw the two love birds(fish) spawn last night again before I got around to putting and trying to breed them in a 20g.

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eye gold fish View Post
    Thanks Coralbandit,
    The fry are fully free swimming, very small batch @20. I have started feeding them egg yoke powder mix with raw egg yoke. Not sure if I got the mix right but will see tonight when I get home. Also have bbs hatching for tomorrow's feeding. btw the two love birds(fish) spawn last night again before I got around to putting and trying to breed them in a 20g.
    That rocks !
    Ironically my fry never attached so I stole them [what bandits do ]and have added them in with my youngest rams [just free swimming themselves ].
    I know nothing but I swear they are eating ?? I added them yesterday ..How long can last if they are not eating ??
    I figured the rams were right there with them chronologically and have a learned a thing or two about 'tough/finicky' fish ..
    Without much effort at all I am using the scientifically proven 'Monkey see monkey do 'philosophy !
    The rams keep them going as I know they are all good and should by all rights the disc should be able to eat what I feed the same ..
    I am feeding BBS [day one] Golden pearls 100 micron and freeze dried copepods .
    I swear I saw them go to surface when I added the copepods !
    Keep me up on how this goes for you I am learning on the fly myself ..
    The blue light didn't work for me but I have not even painted my tank white so I can't complain ..
    Me and the round fish are going to work this out and learn to work together as time passes I hope .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFp68wjRUU
    ^^ My fish room tour by Richsfishes ^^
    Got rams ?

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    very interesting, Tom.
    Mama Bear

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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    If I remember correctly sanjay21 started a great thread in artificially raising discus fry, and had great success with the method that emerged from his thread. I will do a search and try to paste the link back here...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: sponge or no sponge

    Thank you Daniel for the link. My attempt at artificial raising is a failure, all the fry died when I got home from work tonight. Don't think I got the egg yolk mixture consistency right. The new spawn of eggs were eaten tonight as well, it seem the pair tends to eat them right around hatch day...sigh. This is very discouraging, think I will give this breeding aspect of the hobby a rest for now and just enjoy their majestic and serene beauty.

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