Fight Night in the Aquarium (1 damaged discus)

[Tefloncat]

Hello Everyone,
I have a 100 gallon DT with 6 discus about 5-6" long roughly 1 year old, been all together roughly 4 months. All from Wet Pet (ridiculously good LFS) 2 purchased 5 months ago remaining 4 about 4 months ago. Now I have 2 pairs of breeders (up to wigglers).
Water Parameters
pH 6.5, temp 86⁰f, tds ~70, ammonia 0,nitrites 0, nitrates 10-20.
I just left tank mate list on previous post "dark male" if interested.
So, after the fight the loser has tissue damage near R eye socket. Should I be concerned? I know fish have incredible regenerative powers but still. And 2nd issue I plan on moving Brutus Beefcake and his mate to a 50 gallon hospital tank, now with the intent of 1) breeding them -it was never my initial intent to breed discus, but what the heck, I orginally went to school and received degree in fisheries management/limnology, but became a pharmacist...very similar...not. So let's see how much my education will help. 2) I have been told that adding another discus in the tank of similar size to make an odd number may reduce the tension....I don't buy it, but I figured I'd throw it out there and see what you think. Finally, is this a turquoise or ? (Please fill in ?)
Thanks
Eric

[Mando]

Hey, Eric! your fish is beautiful. I would not worry about the damage too much. You can aid in its recovery by adding salt.

I don't buy the idea of a third fish to reduce tension. However, having 6 or more discus in a non breeding group does reduce some bullying risks. In contrast, this does not work in breeding pairs since it increases aggression. From my understanding, a third in a breeding pair's tank is to further develop the parent's defensive skills to protect their fry and as a result, preventing them from eating their own eggs.

And, yes, this looks like a red turquoise to me.

[Tefloncat]

Hello Armando,
My fish thanks you on the complement. I may have made my post confusing, I was planning on possibly adding an additional discus to the DT once Brutus and his lady friend’s breeding season was complete (I’ve read that breeding season last about 15 weeks, but I’m only going by what I’ve read. Please correct me if I’m incorrect). In theory this will make an odd number
(and I’m still not totally sold on the odd number theory). I would never put an additional discus in the breeding tank, and as you stated I’m trying to reduce the bullying by putting them in the spare tank. I’ve been using really low dose of Rift Lake salts in DT, would you suggest a different salt (I read on this site all different salts to use, from table to kosher).
Thanks
Eric

[Mando]

What is DT? I use .49 cent non iodize regular salt from publix and I only use salt when they damage their scales or I see some issues with their breathing. It’s not good to use salt long term. I know a few others buy the huge bag from Homedepot but I never looked into it so I cannot correctly identify the brand.

As long as you have a group of discus of 5+ you’re fine with aggression.

[Tefloncat]

Story about the the lazy use of acronyms DT=Display Tank. This is what I’ve been using as salt (1st pic) at about 1.25g/gallon concentration, it seems like OP (Over Priced....just messing with you) epsom salt. But, nothing is to good for my babies. You seem good at the game “what’s my genetic line”, so here you go pigeon blood (2nd pic), and 3rd pic snakeskin (notice eggs...they laid them an hour ago, or so) and the darkened male is Brutus Beefcake (my problem child), 3rd and 4th pic are for your viewing pleasure (I’ll get better at pics)
Thanks

[Mando]

That was funny. I should have known what DT meant, lol. I speed read through the forum, perhaps I should thoroughly read the posts

So the darkened male is the one that bred with the snake skin? then, he isn't a problem at all. When discus are in breeding mode, they darken a bit. This is actually the best sign you can get that he is ok. However, me personally, I would be really terrified of the thick substrate. I lack experience with that salt so I cannot comment. The gurus can chime in on that. Either way, I would be hesitant to use salt more often than just an irregularity within the fish.

[bluelagoon]

Is your natural ph low. The cichlid salt you are using will incease ph. Notice the calcium and magnesium. Rift Lake cichlids like ph around 8.2 or slightly higher and that salt will get it up there. You can make your own real cheap and don't have to buy it. The salt that is used for remedies would be sodium chloride. Just plan table salt will do. The small amount of iodine will not hurt the fish. I see it now used in a water conditioner for fish tanks. The discus is a turq and should not be bred with a PB due to peppering; a trait that is not liked much.

[bluelagoon]

ps... Those salts are certainly not good for your plants.

[Tefloncat]

Hello all,
Good to know on salts, I’ll switch to plain table salt, pH has been a steady 6.5 +/-0.1. The thick substrate is actually a plenum (see “darkened male” post for a description). Knowing that this darkening during spawning is not abnormal brings me a LOT of relief, thanks. The 2 PB’s in the tank are the other brooding pair. However, I suspect they may be 2 females since both spawns looked irregular and never got to wiggler stage. Either that or they are just youngens learning the ropes of parenthood.
Again, thanks everyone

[Tefloncat]

Is the fear of deep substrate the potential development of hydrogen sulfide gas? This plenum has a super slow air pull (like a UGF), which in theory reduces the likelyhood of developing these gas pockets (I sure hope I recall correctly, it's been 40 years since going to school for fisheries management....a degree sadly I never used). PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong (being wrong might entail a complete teardown, but would have to be done)
Again thanks everyone
Eric

[bluelagoon]

The gas, is not the issue with deep substrate in a discus tank. A deep substrate needs to be cleaned a lot in a discus tank. The biggest reason is due to anaenobic bacteria build up like Hexmetia. Even tho discus may have these in their gut in small numbers, when stressed in a tank these bacteria multiply and overwhelm the immune system, until intervention. Get out the Metro in other words.

[Tefloncat]

Hey Mervin,
Thanks for the explanation. But with very low air running through the plenum shouldn't this in theory reduce the likelyhood of anaerobic bacteria developing inxs in the substrate?
Thanks
Eric

[bluelagoon]

I don't know what the self life of that kind of filtation would be like or what it is made of. Filters do glog up. I'm not sure of the answer in that case. As long as they're not eating off a dirty dinner plate. They shouldn't eat too much bad bacteria.