Attachment Rate/Timing & Strategies in 40 Breeder

[coralbandit]

Ok I use Aqueon Pro heaters and they are black ..
Has never been an issue for others with fry . I am able to place it horizontal on bottom ..
Am I the only who uses these heaters ?
Surely none of you ever remove your heaters ?

[Tshethar]

Hi Bill, definitely try the weir idea. Also can you move the Aquaclear along the back of the tank. If so perhaps move it as far away from the parents/fry as possible. Also place a large foam prefilter of the inlet so the fry do not get sucked in the filter. Crossing fingers for you Bill.
Pat

Took your advice, Pat, and the results are good tonight. Here's a look at the pair right after a big WC and full refill, plus the filter restart on the far end of the tank with floss weir. Water is still a bit hazy but at least folks can get an idea if so inclined:



After a moment or two they went right over to check things out, and it's definitely fine for them in terms of flow now:



Apologies for video quality... haven't started working on my post-production skills. (Or my production skills. Or pre-production, for that matter. )

I have to say, I'm amazed at how much they've grown in the last day or two. They've easily doubled or tripled in size, and if I had started my BBS hatch sooner I think they'd be eating it with no problem today. Got it going this afternoon so they'll have to make do with mom and dad for now.

Do folks think I'll need to target them with it initially, such as with a syringe or something, or do you think they will hunt it down if I try to get some going in their general direction? (Or resort to reducing the footprint?)

[Tshethar]

One more thought on a tank divider, if you can get a close inside measurement of the width of your tank and shorter than the depth you can go to your local home store and have them cut you a piece of glass and you can cover the edges with a split piece of airline tubing

Jeanne

Thanks, Jeanne. That's something I haven't tried before with the airline tubing--will try to remember that trick. I'm hoping that I may be past the point of needing to divide, or if I'm not, that it will be okay to stick the black foam I have from Swiss Tropicals in there given that the fry are now seeming well-attached and pretty soon the challenge will be making sure they get started on the BBS.

If I were really going for numbers I wonder about using one of the styro, smaller cube fishboxes I have around for this purpose... drop in a heater and airstone and watch from above...

[Tshethar]

Great thread and thanks for all the great info all !

Thanks, Tom. There are some folks who visit this section who have decades of experience. I'm happy to have an excuse to see what they might have to offer.

FWIW, I'm sure I could learn a lot about breeding rams from you. If I ever get a fishroom I would love to try them. Have always thought they're great fish.

Ok I use Aqueon Pro heaters and they are black ..
Has never been an issue for others with fry . I am able to place it horizontal on bottom ..
Am I the only who uses these heaters ?
Surely none of you ever remove your heaters ?

I'm using an Eheim/ebo-jager heater and have mostly been going with those, hooked up to a temperature controller. Recently I got a titanium probe with controller, but right now that's in my aging barrel... haven't used the Aqueons. There's a little black on my heater at the top, plus dark suction cups and wiring, and that hasn't been a perpetual distraction, though it has drawn some interest at times.

I think there's a chance one might be a bit of a problem for this short period if they're solid black, but I'll bet you could wrap it in filter floss or something and so long as no fry had much chance of getting trapped somehow, that might work. Maybe others have dealt with this already...

[coralbandit]

Thanks, Tom. There are some folks who visit this section who have decades of experience. I'm happy to have an excuse to see what they might have to offer.

FWIW, I'm sure I could learn a lot about breeding rams from you. If I ever get a fishroom I would love to try them. Have always thought they're great fish.



I'm using an Eheim/ebo-jager heater and have mostly been going with those, hooked up to a temperature controller. Recently I got a titanium probe with controller, but right now that's in my aging barrel... haven't used the Aqueons. There's a little black on my heater at the top, plus dark suction cups and wiring, and that hasn't been a perpetual distraction, though it has drawn some interest at times.

I think there's a chance one might be a bit of a problem for this short period if they're solid black, but I'll bet you could wrap it in filter floss or something and so long as no fry had much chance of getting trapped somehow, that might work. Maybe others have dealt with this already...

Thanks Bill .
Great videos you really make me look amateur on my video skills , you have nothing to worry about with your skills !
To watch the videos is nothing short of amazing to me ..These fish have 'hooked ' me a little !
I may paint a heater ..Anyone ever Krylon their heater ??

[danotaylor]

Cool thread Bill. Congrats on your fry. Did you say anywhere what the parent strains are? The male looks like a turq of some kind. Is the female an alenquer? Fun times mate, good for you!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Bill, everything is looking great and a super congrats on the fry. If you visit my growout thread from the last challenge http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...t-Thread/page3 Post #32 you will see the syringe/air-hose setup I use for targeted feeding. This setup will allow you to place a small amount of BBS above the parent/fry in the water column and allows the BBS to drift down to the fish. I would suggest playing with the setup prior to adding BBS and practice a little over the pair so they do not freak out when you do it for real.
Pat

[Tefloncat]

Hey Bill,
I’m I am EXACTLY in your shoes right now. I bought 6 juvies (4” ish, 4 months ago). All 6 paired off, I feel like I won powerball!. Anyway, I get to this point and they, being in 100 gall planted/DT the fry had +/- zero percent chance of survival. My solution, initially was to use needle point sheets/screens (supper cheap $0.27/sheet) to divide them from the other inhabitants (look in 1st pic to the right side). Well that worked wonderfully, until the fry were attracted to the black screens, (they come in black or white) instead of the parents. Well somehow they worked their way out and when the other fish got wind of this they literally lined up like in a buffet line. So I bought a 40 gallon breeder tank (it’s actually 48 gallons go figure..more your money, at $1/gallon sale), so today I’m trying a reverse sump setup (used Aqueon Pro sump with small crack which I repaired for $15). White paper on all sides, even bottom and top 1/2 of front glass, ALL equipment will be in the sump. I plan on making the return a sort of rain effect so it will be gentle with little current. Pump in tank will be surrounded by these WHITE needle point sheets as will the seperator (2 of 3 pairs will go in this tank). I will write updates on this system as they occur. Good luck Bill!
Eric

[Tshethar]

Thanks Bill .
Great videos you really make me look amateur on my video skills , you have nothing to worry about with your skills !
To watch the videos is nothing short of amazing to me ..These fish have 'hooked ' me a little !
I may paint a heater ..Anyone ever Krylon their heater ??

Appreciate it, Tom, and glad to hear these guys have "hooked" you a little. I'm sure you've explored a lot in the hobby and it's always cool if there's something that still generates some excitement and enthusiasm. I have definitely come to appreciate why some folks have stayed with these particular fish for long periods. (In other words, "me, too!")

Don't know about the heater and the Krylon--I've only used it on the exterior of the tank itself--but that might well work. Maybe someone else can confirm that it is fish safe.

[Tshethar]

Hi Bill, everything is looking great and a super congrats on the fry. If you visit my growout thread from the last challenge http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...t-Thread/page3 Post #32 you will see the syringe/air-hose setup I use for targeted feeding. This setup will allow you to place a small amount of BBS above the parent/fry in the water column and allows the BBS to drift down to the fish. I would suggest playing with the setup prior to adding BBS and practice a little over the pair so they do not freak out when you do it for real.
Pat

Thanks, Pat. I was glad to have a chance to look back at that thread. I love your attention to detail and you have a lot of great how-to material in there, some that I remember and some I'm sure I don't. I was planning to try this as I have some syringes around and some airline, but honestly the day was getting away from me here and I hadn't had time to rig up something and play with it.

So, finally this afternoon after getting home from puppy training class (!) I thought, "I've got to get some bbs in there," and since the parents have always been relaxed and low key when I'm working in and around them, and I'm using one of those Hobby hatching dishes which has a little white collection cup with a screen in the bottom I thought I could keep my thumb over (more or less), I just went ahead and put my hand in the tank above the parents and released what I had. It definitely had the desired effect of making them available in a cloud around the parents, though I wasn't sure whether they figured out they were food or not. Will check in a bit and see if there are any pink bellies.

Learned last time I will need to augment this hatchery with a second one to keep them rotating, and also ordered some of the Ocean Nutrition ones I will probably freeze in little cubes to supplement. May also experiment with some worm dust, time permitting, or some beef/seafood frozen mix I have if and when it looks like they'll start going for it.

[Tshethar]

Hey Bill,
I’m I am EXACTLY in your shoes right now. I bought 6 juvies (4” ish, 4 months ago). All 6 paired off, I feel like I won powerball!. Anyway, I get to this point and they, being in 100 gall planted/DT the fry had +/- zero percent chance of survival. My solution, initially was to use needle point sheets/screens (supper cheap $0.27/sheet) to divide them from the other inhabitants (look in 1st pic to the right side). Well that worked wonderfully, until the fry were attracted to the black screens, (they come in black or white) instead of the parents. Well somehow they worked their way out and when the other fish got wind of this they literally lined up like in a buffet line. So I bought a 40 gallon breeder tank (it’s actually 48 gallons go figure..more your money, at $1/gallon sale), so today I’m trying a reverse sump setup (used Aqueon Pro sump with small crack which I repaired for $15). White paper on all sides, even bottom and top 1/2 of front glass, ALL equipment will be in the sump. I plan on making the return a sort of rain effect so it will be gentle with little current. Pump in tank will be surrounded by these WHITE needle point sheets as will the seperator (2 of 3 pairs will go in this tank). I will write updates on this system as they occur. Good luck Bill!
Eric

Eric, congrats on the good luck and glad you could take advantage of the dollar/gallon sale! (You might want a second one, or more, for when the growout gets serious! ) The needlepoint sounds like a really good idea, especially if you could cover it with filter floss if you're trying to keep the new free swimmers with the parents in one area of the tank. Otherwise they can still wander through those holes when they first leave the cone. (Some of mine managed to find a very tiny gap between my prefilter sponge and the intake tube on my HOB, for example, which was unfortunate.)

That said, if there is no equipment and very low flow in the tank, your fry may not stray that much, and dropping the water level as Willie describes above may be enough. [Edit: oops, just recognized you're going to go with 2-3 pairs in here! In that case, you might want to add some floss, at least for those couple of days when the fry could go through. Curious what others will think.]

Do let us know how it's going!

[Tshethar]

Cool thread Bill. Congrats on your fry. Did you say anywhere what the parent strains are? The male looks like a turq of some kind. Is the female an alenquer? Fun times mate, good for you!

Thanks, Daniel! Almost skipped your comment... and you know, I agree with you as far as the strains go, though they both came in as a group of "F1 Alenquer." The male has always looked a bit rounder and had deeper blue coloring than others in the group; my guess is either this within a genetic range one might expect from a wild-type, or else maybe he was a jumper from the next tank over at the supplier!

[Tefloncat]

The floss is a great idea, I’ll try putting a real thin layer between 2 of those needle point sheets, have a few made up and when they get dirty swap them out. In the 40 gallon I plan on dividing the tank and having a pair on each side. All 3 pair are laying eggs and 2 of the 3 pair were having fry feed off the parents. I’m not to upset they got eaten, it’s a learning lesson for me and them, they are breeding about a week after each failure. We’ll see. As a side note, I always thought that discus were easy going serine fish. I failed to remember they still are cichlids, every time I clean the tank the pigeons will flatten and full on attack my hand (good parents).
Eric
Sorry about all the pics I’m new to the site, I tried to remove all but 1st one....no go.

[danotaylor]

Thanks, Daniel! Almost skipped your comment... and you know, I agree with you as far as the strains go, though they both came in as a group of "F1 Alenquer." The male has always looked a bit rounder and had deeper blue coloring than others in the group; my guess is either this within a genetic range one might expect from a wild-type, or else maybe he was a jumper from the next tank over at the supplier!

He's a pretty boy either way mate, and def looks in the genetic range of a wild type. His striations look like a full royal blue and he has a faint black Halo detectable as well. Either way they're a nice match for a pair and the fry will look awesome! Good for you mate

[Tshethar]

The floss is a great idea, I’ll try putting a real thin layer between 2 of those needle point sheets, have a few made up and when they get dirty swap them out. In the 40 gallon I plan on dividing the tank and having a pair on each side. All 3 pair are laying eggs and 2 of the 3 pair were having fry feed off the parents. I’m not to upset they got eaten, it’s a learning lesson for me and them, they are breeding about a week after each failure. We’ll see. As a side note, I always thought that discus were easy going serine fish. I failed to remember they still are cichlids, every time I clean the tank the pigeons will flatten and full on attack my hand (good parents).
Eric
Sorry about all the pics I’m new to the site, I tried to remove all but 1st one....no go.

Good luck, Eric--I'm curious how those dividers will work out. I have a feeling you're going to end up with some growing fry. Oh, and no worries about the pics--glad you decided to start sharing on the site.