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Thread: Grow Out Challenge Redux

  1. #16
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Very nice looking pair Bill, should produce some lovey looking wild type fry!

  2. #17
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by kev1310 View Post
    Loving that male! You should get some really nice fish from that pair
    Thanks, Kev. I like him, too. He has nice shape and grew really well. Also turned out to be a doting and patient father, and relaxed. Whatever his background, he's been a good fish!

    For her part, the female doesn't have perfect shape and she didn't grow as large as another in the group, but she's always been a robust fish in terms of appetite and personality. And since she's mostly solid brown, I might get some variation in patterning from the pair. Fingers crossed.

  3. #18
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by danotaylor View Post
    Very nice looking pair Bill, should produce some lovey looking wild type fry!
    Thanks, Daniel. Hoping for the best!

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    What a beautiful pair!

    1. Last time I kept them in a 10 gallon tank for too long. This time I'm beginning in the 40 breeder, but with a section of about 15 gallons separated off for them to start off in. My hope is that I'll get cleaner, more stable water, while still giving them a footprint in which they can easily find food and feel secure. Seems good so far.
    This will allow you to keep better water quality! I guess I missed the 10g part in your old growout. I found keeping water in a 10g very hard to keep stable.


    4. Ideally I might be able to do more than one WC/day, but it's not going to be realistic this time. They're getting one each evening of around 70%. I may siphon the bottom near the fish 2x/day, do regular wipedowns, and see how that goes for a while.
    I put hard thought into this one with my new growouts and instead of doing two WC's a day, I changed my feeding schedule. I hope I can get the message across easily by typing the process below. I calculated the time of how long they will be in the water in between water changes. For mine, it was exactly every 12 hours since I work in the mornings and go to school at nights.

    Auto feeder = AF

    My thought process here was, why feed at 7am, 9am(af) 10am(af), 12pm (af), 2pm (af), 6pm (af) and WC at 8pm. I'm dirtying the water early on in the day and having them swim through that dirty water for hours before the 8pm WC.

    What I did was divide my total AF feedings into 12 and I basically feed every 3 hrs now (I rounded up). So, my feeding times are now 7am, 10am(af), 1pm(af), 4pm(af), 7pm(af), and I feed live worms or Al's at 10pm. In the prior feeding schedule, I would have done 4 feedings before 12pm. In contrast, now I have 2 feedings before 12pm keeping the water much cleaner. I also noticed that I had 40+ nitrates with my old feeding style and with the new feeding schedule, at 8pm, my nitrate is under 20. It’s very light orange so it’s between 10 and 20.

    I feel like the fish are in much cleaner water throughout the day and eating the same amount spread more evenly. Once every other day I do 25-50% in the mornings to avoid nitrate creeping up although my 80% in the evening takes care of that. On the weekends I do 2x wc a day, but I do one at 1pm (6hours from first feeding) and then 8pm (6-7 hrs later.) and I tend to feed a lot more.

  5. #20
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Thanks, Mando. And I appreciate knowing how you're approaching the process with your growout. I have definitely questioned myself after feeding somewhat heavily right after a water change in the past, knowing the tank conditions would start going downhill (overnight, for example). The changes you made to your schedule make sense to me.

    I have never been that precise about my schedule and I'm not sure if I will be this time, either. I like allowing the fish to graze regularly throughout the day, so I may use an autofeeder a little to supplement. I have a couple but tend not to trust them to be consistent. I'm sure I'll be thinking about this more when these guys start generating more waste.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Hi Bill,

    I thought about an auto feeder too but with the fish I'm growing out now, even straight after separating them from the parents I've not fed them through the day at all during the week and it doesn't seem to have affected their growth rate. I fed them at 6.30am and then again an hour later before I went to work, then again at 5pm when I got in and 2-3 times through the evening depending on what I was doing. They're now between 75 and 90mm at 13 weeks and I've now dropped the feeding to 3-4 times a day.

    When they were in the 10g tank water changes were typically 50% morning and 90% evening, now they're in the 30g it's just 90% in an evening.

  7. #22
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Thanks, Kev, for that. I actually think I might do better this time if I do a little less than I did before, and just kind of let things develop. One of my problems last time was being a little too aggressive with water changes, I think. There's no doubt they can learn pretty early to lay on their sides and all, I also found out I could shock them if for whatever reason something was different that day with the (aged) water.

    I am doing multiple feedings a day, and trying to give them something to graze pretty much whenever I think about it, but I also feel as though the water conditions are probably more important so long as they're getting enough to keep growing. Last time there was some impulse to "optimize" (i.e., "maximize") just about everything--self-imposed entirely--but now I honestly just want to avoid neglecting them amidst the rest of life!

  8. #23
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    First "weekend update":

    So far, so good, on what I think is the 3 week mark from their day of free swimming, or about 3.5 weeks from hatching, more or less. Eating BBS (live and frozen) as well as beefheart flake, with one WC/day, usually between 50-70% in the 40. So far I'm pretty happy about the setup. Fish seem to be, too.


  9. #24
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Looking good Bill!!

  10. #25
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Thanks! They have been more active and comfortable than the last group; no hiding, nobody turning dark, everybody zooming around most of the time. When I'm home I usually strain out whatever BBS are passively hatching every couple of hours or so, and then supplement with some flakes and occasionally the frozen bbs. Also, the system with the foam divider makes it easy to refill the tank without splashing everyone around too much.

    I've started learning to watch the gills of my young fish to see if they swell or not, or if respiration seems faster or more labored. I wondered about that with one fish, but not enough to really give me much pause, and it was right after yesterday's WC, anyway. There are a couple that didn't attach well and are smaller, but they are eating fine and we'll see to what degree they can catch or keep up with the others. Cleaned the filters and the sponge(s) well in hopes everything will stay clean for all of them.

  11. #26
    Registered Member Tshethar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Well... I'm afraid things took a bad turn about a day after my last update. Have lost a large number of fry, may end up saving about half of them. That labored breathing was, unfortunately, a harbinger of things to come.

    Don't feel like narrating a full sequence of events, but I ended up pulling the foam divider as I was suspicious that it was holding too much bio-material, and I had no way of squeezing it out. I had first had tried moving the HOB filter onto the side with the fish, and putting an airstone on the other. Been doing at least 2 WCs per day over the past two days, etc., but can't say for sure that they won't all crash.

    Oh well. Not how I wanted my experiment to go. We'll see if there are any to salvage. I do wonder about growing out fish this size in this footprint... hard to get food to them now, but feel like I'm stuck between starving them or polluting the tank.

  12. #27
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Oh no Bill, the respiration of the fry is naturally greater doing feeding. When I was using the foam divider I did do the water changes on the side of the fish. I would push the hose into the foam in the fish side of the divider to keep the water flow down. My foam divider did collect junk but it did not seem to hurt the fry. They actually seemed to enjoy grazing on the foam. I also kept all filtration on the side with the fish also.
    Pat
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  13. #28
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Also Bill, how are you preparing your water for water changes. Do you age your water with aeration? Do you have a ph swing? Seems to me there is something up with the water.
    Pat
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Hi Bill,

    sorry to hear things have gone a bit awry, don't give up though and I wouldn't be afraid to move them to a smaller tank. My second group of ten are still in an 18x15x15 tank at 3" (only because the tank they were going into decided to leak when I filled it and I still haven't found time to re-seal it). The only filter in there is a twin air powered sponge one but I have no water quality issues whatsoever.

    I have found water quality much easier to keep in the smaller tanks. No food gets missed to foul the water, it all gets eaten, it's also quicker and less hassle to do wipe downs and water changes which means you're more likely to do it. I only moved by best ten out into a bigger tank when they were 8 weeks old and over 2".

    This is the first time I've been successful and the three changes I made from the (many) other attempts have been starting with much smaller tanks, having them set up near the sink and over my storage tank and treating with PP. Using smaller tanks and having them in a more accessible position has made me much more proactive with cleaning and water changes, both groups are still getting 90% changes once a day even now.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Grow Out Challenge Redux

    Oh, and incidentally, I have lost all of my previous batches in a similar fashion to you despite treating for flukes and worms which made me decide it was more bacterial than flukes, hence the switch to using PP.

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