Sumped tanks

[ChrisHibs]

I’m looking to start keeping discus after having had a mixed reef tank for 4 years. The tank is 6x2x2 with a 5x18x18 sump and I’m wondering if anyone else is using a sump that could maybe give me some tips on what I’ll need. I have a Clarisea auto roller attached to my main drain, I’ll probably keep this for mechanical filtration but what sort of media is best in a sump for biological filtration? Siporax maybe?

Also I have a 55w oase uv steriliser currently set up above the sump, are UV sterilisers ok with discus?

The background is currently black but I’ve read this can make discus lose there colour, would I be better with a different background?

What sort of stocking levels could I do with this size tank?

Any advice would be appreciated!

[Tshethar]

Hi and welcome to the forum! There are definitely some folks out there who have converted reef systems to discus, and I think you can even find some old threads that document some of their experiences in the Tank Journal section, IIRC.

If you're new to discus, this video from the forum's owner and administrator is a great place to start: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...TCH-THIS-VIDEO!

Most of us coming with experience in our parts of the hobby (myself included) have found that simple setups are great (often preferable to more complex ones), and that most of the technical ingenuity (if there is any) goes into planning water storage and water changing systems, which ideally are made easy for regular (often daily!) use and are sometimes automated.

Sumps are widely used and are great for discus, and most will say that any biological media of choice is fine to go with. I know some here use Poret foam in staged sheets. But really, anything that allows you to prefilter and easily clean regularly at the mechanical stage is good. You may want to think about a good heater or two and perhaps a temperature controller to manage them as they'll be running a lot. (Some also insulate their tanks to some degree if it's not acrylic.)

The UV is fine especially for water clarity and there's no harm in using it, though most will say there's no need to add one. Since you have it, I would use it.

Maybe others who have dark backgrounds will share their thoughts. It's true that discus will change color in relationship to their surroundings, and will sometimes darken to camouflage themselves with a black background. That can be less than ideal in some instances, partly as they also do this when ill (which could cause you to miss something) and there are some strains ("pigeon-based" that may show undesirable "peppering") against black.

Most folks seem to go with a light blue, white, or off-white, but there may be some who have had good success with black who can speak to this.

General rule of thumb is one adult discus for about 10 gallons... for a big tank like this you can certainly do a large group, though sometimes the budget can be an issue... Discus do well in groups (usually at least 5-6 adults as a minimum) or for growing out smaller ones, 10-12 would be a good number. For larger tanks sometimes it is suggested to start smaller fish in smaller spaces (a grow out tank where they can stick together, feel safe, and easily find food) and move them later. If you can afford to add a large number (10+) of 4-5" adults to your tank that could be a great way to go. It's much easier to get all your fish at once from one source, by the way. If you decide to add to your group later you'll want to carefully quarantine any newcomers to avoid potential problems.

Anyway, hope this gets you started and there are lots of folks who can answer questions that come up as you make plans!

[coralbandit]

I just wanted to get in this thread so I can see pictures ..

[Second Hand Pat]

I’m looking to start keeping discus after having had a mixed reef tank for 4 years. The tank is 6x2x2 with a 5x18x18 sump and I’m wondering if anyone else is using a sump that could maybe give me some tips on what I’ll need. I have a Clarisea auto roller attached to my main drain, I’ll probably keep this for mechanical filtration but what sort of media is best in a sump for biological filtration? Siporax maybe?

Also I have a 55w oase uv steriliser currently set up above the sump, are UV sterilisers ok with discus?

The background is currently black but I’ve read this can make discus lose there colour, would I be better with a different background?

What sort of stocking levels could I do with this size tank?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum. Here's is my 230 when I first got it and set it up http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...Making-Biotype in case you may find it useful. Your 180 is a great size and one my favorite sized tanks.

In your sump you will place your heater, bio-media and some mechanical filtration to filter the water prior to going thru the bio-media. There are lots of choices for bio-media and you can spend a fortune on the stuff. My personal approach in the tank linked above was pot-scubbies on top of foam with large pores...aka KISS.

I think most here do not use a uv steriliser but guess it can not hurt. One thing you will want to plan for is how you are going to do water changes on a large tank. I do suggest aging (with aeration) and heating your water. I have a 120 gallon tank I use with my 230. I gravity drain the water while I clean the sand and a pump to push water to refill the tank. I use this tank to house wilds and generally do no more then 12 fish at a time. I prefer a low bio-load with wild discus. You can however stock up to 18 discus comfortably and more if you stay on top of your water quality.
Pat

[ChrisHibs]

Thanks for the replies.

I’ll try and just answer some of the things you’ve all asked.

I do have a temp controller set up with two schego titanium heaters and fans in the sump so I can keep temp pretty stable.

I like the idea of leaving the Clarisea on the main drain to the sump, the fact that it automatically removes the stuff it catches in the water will be a big help in managing my nutrient levels. I don’t think there’s a better form of mechanical filtration than this.

Water changes will be easy, I’m used to having to make RO and mixing the saltwater myself. I have a 180 litre water container that’s only ever had RO in it that I can use. Incidentally I’ve seen some people use RO water for discus, is this common and/or beneficial.

I think I’ll change the background while it’s empty, I don’t want to fill it all up then regret not changing the black background.

Whats everyone favourite tank mates? I’d love to do a decent sized school of neon tetras and maybe a zebra pleco, would they be ok with discus?

If stocking a group at once is best I don’t mind doing that, selling off my corals and 5 Kessil lights means I have quite a good budget for this tank.

I’m not sure how to upload pics onto here yet but all of my tank pictures are on my Instagram page here: https://www.instagram.com/chrisgaff1875
Keep an eye out for the video of my breeding pair of mandarin dragonettes!

[AquaticNerd]

Greetings ChrisHibs,

The temp controller and Schego heater combo will work great for you. I'm currently using an Inkbird controller with two 300W BRS Titanium heaters (Schego manufactures these heaters) and I have no complaints about them.

The Clarisea will work fine - I considered one for my sump but didn't have the clearance and the sump wasn't really designed for it. Instead I use 7" filter sock that gets changed out every couple weeks. I've seen those media rollers used a lot in marine aquariums with a lot of success, so I think it'll work great for a discus tank! I would agree that the mechanical filtration capability of the media rollers is superior to any other form of mechanical filtration. I think the biggest drawback to the roller is just cost of upkeep. If you don't mind that cost, I say use it.

There's a lot of discussion regarding whether RO water is necessary or not. Do you know the parameters of your tap water? Are you under a municipal supply or well water? If you watch the video linked above, you can see firsthand experience of raising discus in a variety of conditions. For example, the pH of my water out of the tap is 7.8-8.0, and is moderately hard. After aging the water, my pH is around 7.6-7.4 - suitable for using tap as WC water, but I like getting my water up to temp first. Typically, if you only see a drop of .4 from tap to aged water, it is safe to use tap for WC water. Now for the requirements of the fish - unless you are looking at keeping wild discus, any domestic strain will be fine in most tap water.

I personally like the look of a black backgrounds and currently have it on my tank. If you look at my tank journal, you can see that my fish's colors are fairly bright considering the black background. I think background color matters more when you're covering the back and both sides versus just the back, but that's my opinion.

Tank mates vary based on preference. Neon tetras are good. My plan is cardinal tetras - they get a little larger than neon tetras. Others in the tetra family are usually decent - I've also considered Rummy Nose Tetras as well. Bottom-dwellers such as the Corydoras species are also good tank mates. The pleco species I've heard are also okay, but I've never personally kept them together. I'd especially be concerned keeping discus with another high dollar fish such as the L46. I've considered both the L200 and L190, but the L190 gets too large and the L200 is hard to come by in my area. With your size tank the L190 could (potentially) fit. I know this gets overused by I love seeing discus with a huge school of cardinal tetras.

[ChrisHibs]

Tap water comes out of the tap at about 7.4 PH. I’ve never aged water though? Do you mean just let it sit for a while before using it? I’ve still got an RO unit but after a few flooding incidents in the house I’m only allowed to use it outside and being in the North of Scotland that’s a tedious task in the winter so I’d like to not have to use RO if possible 😂

I haven’t decided which type of discus I’d like yet, still learning there names. I could tell you all about any marine fish but I’ve got very little experience of any freshwater fish so please excuse my ignorance with them. I love the pair in Second Hand Pat’s signature above but I’ve no idea what they are!

I’ve read a couple of people have kept apistogramma’s with discus too, I do like some of the apistos but I thought they maybe be a bit too aggressive for discus?

[Mando]

Chris, threw you a follow on instagram. Great posts!

I use a red sea tank to house my discus and I use the sump that came with it. It's the quietest tank ever, I don't even hear ripples or trickles anywhere. The skimmer goes into a pipe with an adjustable silencer. Water goes through two socks, then my refugium (not needed). Followed by 5 sponge panels (12"x2") that consists from course to fine pads, and finally the return pump. I have bio blocks and a ton of sponge filters to jump start a hospital tank if needed in the return pump section. I also keep my air stone and heaters in my sump to keep a clean look in the main tank.

I have a pleco l190 (royal) that I have kept with my discus for close to 2 years now and it's still about 6" long. Very slow grower. I've seen some species of plecos that do like to ride the discus and remove their slime so do your research on those. I know l190 and l200's are safe as well as the BN plecos as I kept these with Discus before.

I have also kept neon tetras, rummy nose (my favorite), harley quinn tetra's, and corydoras (check for 82+ temp species) with my discus.

Aging water is basically filling another container with tap water, adding a stone, and a heater for close to 24 hours. This is primarily to avoid ph swings greater than .4. I have a 55g food grade drum outside my window, some people use trashcans. However, if your tap has a .4 or less of a swing, you can water change straight from tap.

[14Discus]

As your tank will age, I’d suggest one includes the means for NO3 removal.....nitrates. Yes, the biological and mechanical is fine, but include the means for nitrate reduction by ways of a refugium, pathos root plant chamber, or even a resin bed. While your NO2 and NH3 levels will be kept in check w mech. / bio material, one needs to include NH3 reduction, or those levels will rise too high. Not everyone can do a daily WC, so by including this, one is better covered. My 75 g tank has two bio wheel filters, a FX canister, and a sump. The sump has a sock surrounded by bioballs, a couple of mech pads,a large pathos root chamber, and a resin bed chamber. My nitrates are always between 5-10 as a result. My WC schedule is around every 7-10 days.....occasionally a few more. One of the biggest reasons for WCs is for nitrate reduction. WCs coupled w a solid NO3 filtering system is ideal as I see it. Others may disagree, but this has worked years for me wo issues.

[Mando]

As your tank will age, I’d suggest one includes the means for NO3 removal.....nitrates. Yes, the biological and mechanical is fine, but include the means for nitrate reduction by ways of a refugium, pathos root plant chamber, or even a resin bed. While your NO2 and NH3 levels will be kept in check w mech. / bio material, one needs to include NH3 reduction, or those levels will rise too high. Not everyone can do a daily WC, so by including this, one is better covered. My 75 g tank has two bio wheel filters, a FX canister, and a sump. The sump has a sock surrounded by bioballs, a couple of mech pads,a large pathos root chamber, and a resin bed chamber. My nitrates are always between 5-10 as a result. My WC schedule is around every 7-10 days.....occasionally a few more. One of the biggest reasons for WCs is for nitrate reduction. WCs coupled w a solid NO3 filtering system is ideal as I see it. Others may disagree, but this has worked years for me wo issues.

Can we see a pic of your Pathos root chambers? I have a refugium but I feel like nitrates still climb. I've seen people add pothos or super fast growing plants in their sump.

[14Discus]

To the left is the inlet chamber w sock and bioballs, then the rootballs of Pathos, then the resin chamber at right where the outlet is.
I trim and create new root bundles of plants every few weeks.
29582BA2-E462-4DDE-97CB-89835A573A7A.jpg

[14Discus]

I used to use both water sprite and algae, but the dead shaded out plant parts just added to the NO3 levels. With Pathos roots, only the roots are in the water and I have to just check for the occasional yellow/dead leaf.

[14Discus]

10D47EFA-8938-48BA-A481-6FEBE364C3CB.jpeg
Here is a close up of one of the root balls in the 15” long root chamber. There are abt four other such clumps in the chamber.

[pantherlax]

The auto-roller is a cool idea, hope you let us know how it works out for you. The biggest pain point for my sump is that I should have laid it out better for mechanical (and too a lesser extent Bio media) maintenance. Seems like the Clarisea might help with that issue.

[14Discus]

Btw.....I bought fairly large plants and worked real hard to rinse out the dirt. I opted for larger start plants bc the roots were already well established. Starting w tiny stems wo real good roots takes too much time to actually remove nitrates. The new cuttings take a few weeks to have decent roots going....that’s why I add them to the larger clumps as much as possible. Sometimes I use a turkey baster to suck up the fine brown junk that does settle under the roots. This is to further prevent nitrates from using that organic plant decay gunk underneath the roots. To help me see the gunk, the bottom of the chamber is white. I want water to pass through the chamber and have the roots grab the nitrates in order to produce nice plant leaf growth. What nitrates are not grabbed by the pathos roots is ideally removed by my resin bed pillows in the last chamber. I only change the resin every 60 days or so. While the current pillows of resin are doing their thing, I have a second set sitting in a saltwater bucket being recharged for my next change.