Discus dying one by one

[Patrick4802]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Started a new tank in August with 3 - 2.5” pigeons. Added 12 2.5” discus in September. They did well for a couple weeks but stated dying off 1 by1. I bought them online and made the mistake of not quarantining.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
What happens is one by one they fish will turn dark, start hiding in the corner or behind driftwood, stop eating and die. Noticed white poop after the first 6 died.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
started treating the tank with metro on 11/29. Have been dosing the water and the food per the instructions for 2 weeks now. Dosage is 125mg per 10 gallons every other day. Dosing the food it’s metro, focus and garlic guard

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
125 gallons, 3 penguin tetras, 3 discus left and 1 large precocious

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often)
2 - 30 gallon changed twice a week. Plus 10 gallons a day

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank running since August 2019. Small gravel substrate, approx 2 “ deep

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I do. Starts at 7.2 and is 8.4. 24 hrs later

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
30 gallon water drum, add ro right.
It’s well water so I’ve been using 100% ro water and use ro right to add trace minerals back

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ____85_

- ph ___7.2__

- ammonia reading ___0_

- nitrite reading ___0_

- nitrate reading __5-20, it’s hard to tell on the api test kit__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water __well water is my source__

- municipal water ____

- RO water __100%__


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Last fish were from September when I added the 12 discus

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Seacheum flakes and beefheart. I used to feed bloodworms but stopped when I aw the white poop


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Patrick4802]

The 3 living pigeons came from my lfs. The since departed 12 juveniles came from The Ifish Store. In the future I plan on restocking through a local distributor that does 90% discus.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Patrick, it sounds like the fish from the IFish store came with something that killed them over time. Have you dewormed the fish? Also what is wrong with your well water?
Pat

[Patrick4802]

The well water is fine but the ph is really high. I can keep it at a nice steady 7.0-7.2 with the ro water. I haven’t tried deworming, just metro.

[Second Hand Pat]

The well water is fine but the ph is really high. I can keep it at a nice steady 7.0-7.2 with the ro water. I haven’t tried deworming, just metro.

What's the ph of well water after aging Patrick?. Did the fish seem to be wasting away?
Pat

[Patrick4802]

It comes out of the tap at 7.2 but ages to 8.2, sometimes as high as 8.6.

The fish generally act normal, eat well. Then out of the blue they’ll start hiding, turn dark and stop eating. Eventually they die. The ones I’ve closely observed were still pooping white when they died despite being dosed with metro and eating metro/focus food.

[Patrick4802]

Now the original pigeons are doing the same thing. 2 of them went dark and are hiding. The third one has always been shy and his color is still good but he’s hiding too

[danotaylor]

Patrick your metro dose is way to low. Using pure metro (not metroplex or general cure) 500mg/10g is recommended 2 times daily with 50%+ wc's with your aged water before 1of your doses. A lot of folks dose daily, but metronidazole is only active for 8 hours once metabolized, which is why humans take it every 8 hours when prescribed. I dose 3 times daily when I use it and it works great for me at that dose & frequency.
Sorry you had a bad first experience mate. Stick around here, there's a ton of great info, and many folks willing to help you in your way.

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Patrick, Welcome to SD and sorry you're having problems. I think what Pat is getting to is, unless there's something bad in your well water, the pH alone is not an issue, especially since you age it. You may not really need the RO. That's not likely the source of your problem, though.
So, either a "germ" that came from one or the other of the groups, and/or your water or tank environment has allowed something else harmful to grow, or you have too much waste accumulating in the tank somewhere.
I would say you are not changing enough water to eliminate the almost dissolved waste that accumulates. You are not changing close to 100% per week, so waste is accumulating. For fish that size, you probably need at least 50 gal every couple days.
I am surprised that your ammonia and nitrite/nitrate numbers seem to be OK.
Your 2" substrate is a likely culprit in trapping waste, unless you are actively cleaning it when you change water. If beefheart or other food is getting in there, it will foul your water pretty quickly.
I would up your water changes and see if the problem stabilizes at all. It sounds like you've got an "intestinal bug" now too, so the metro is probably called for, but I'll let others chime in there. I'm sure you'll get more responses.

Good luck
Steve

My post crossed with Daniel's. Sounds like he's got metro answers.

[Second Hand Pat]

Patrick your metro dose is way to low. Using pure metro (not metroplex or general cure) 500mg/10g is recommended 2 times daily with 50%+ wc's with your aged water before 1of your doses. A lot of folks dose daily, but metronidazole is only active for 8 hours once metabolized, which is why humans take it every 8 hours when prescribed. I dose 3 times daily when I use it and it works great for me at that dose & frequency.
Sorry you had a bad first experience mate. Stick around here, there's a ton of great info, and many folks willing to help you in your way.

Thanks Danny, should have caught the metro dose. It also help to raise the temp during a metro treatment Patrick. Brian would recommend 93F.
Pat

[Patrick4802]

Sorry I should have been clearer. I’ve been using metroplex rather than pure metro. I vacuum the gravel a couple times a week and there is hardly any fish load in the tank hence the low nitrates. Will a fully stocked tank I’ll need to up the water changes

[Patrick4802]

Since there are only 3 fish left, would it make sense to flip them over to a 20 gallon hospital tank and dose accordingly?

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry I should have been clearer. I’ve been using metroplex rather than pure metro. I vacuum the gravel a couple times a week and there is hardly any fish load in the tank hence the low nitrates. Will a fully stocked tank I’ll need to up the water changes

Best to get pure metro Patrick https://angelsplus.com/collections/f...o-nidasole-100.
Pat

[Patrick4802]

Thanks for the link. I’ve looked and that’s not easy to find that price

[danotaylor]

Since there are only 3 fish left, would it make sense to flip them over to a 20 gallon hospital tank and dose accordingly?

Patrick metroplex is only 33% pure, the rest is fillers, so if possible get the pure metro from JehmCo or triple the metroplex dosing.
Since Hex exists in the aquarium I personally would treat the main tank with metro & heat to eliminate it's presence, at least for a while