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Thread: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Has anyone ever seen this in discus or ever deal with it ?
    From my browsing hours spend on net and here in particular it seems that this disease or better yet "condition " is fairly rare and unusual I discus fish .
    That's why I wanted to share and document my experience , and maybe find someone who have successfully deal with it .
    My BD is most affected , but some other discus have it too , and it's been affecting it for more than a year I guess without any visible harm or progression .

    Here is a video of this not very harmfully but ugly looking parasite disease and any other members experience with it is welcomed :

    BD is most affected but it's also visible on the second SS discus on the video :

    http://youtu.be/yjbLHb5bpSA

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    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Good lord, Flip. I have never even heard of this parasite before. My go to Discus disease man is Discus Hans. Paul Butler comes to mind as well. I'll get in touch with them and see if either of them have any experience with it.
    Mama Bear

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    Registered Member BrendanJ23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Hard to tell from the video, but are the spots flat like peppering, or raised? I’m totally unfamiliar with this just asking out of curiosity.

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Good lord, Flip. I have never even heard of this parasite before. My go to Discus disease man is Discus Hans. Paul Butler comes to mind as well. I'll get in touch with them and see if either of them have any experience with it.
    Thanks for your help Liz . I can surely use some expert advice because it seems that this stuff is very rare and unusual in discus fish.
    I'm only guessing that it is Neascus flat worms because that's the only thing that appear when you seaech the net for Black spots fish disease .
    One thing that sticks out and do not fit the description for Neascus worm disease that I found on net is, that black spots on My BD are embedded in to the skin of the fish and do not stick out nor they can be felt by touch .

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by BrendanJ23 View Post
    Hard to tell from the video, but are the spots flat like peppering, or raised? I’m totally unfamiliar with this just asking out of curiosity.
    Flat like pigments embedded under the skin . Not detectable by touch and do not stick out .
    This is the only thing that makes me hesitate if this is Neascus digenean trematode or something completely different .

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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Black spot disease, black cells surround by
    Dark Cysts and small Dark spots sometime show up in Silver Dollars and Tangs. They are treatable with medication.

    Cliff

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    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    do you know what med is used, Cliff?
    Mama Bear

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    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus View Post
    Black spot disease, black cells surround by
    Dark Cysts and small Dark spots sometime show up in Silver Dollars and Tangs. They are treatable with medication.

    Cliff
    Is this what is referred to as "lake spots" in wild tangs Cliff?

  9. #9
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Flip, I'm still on this. I haven't contacted either of my guru's because I haven't had contact with either of them for a long while. I didn't want to bother them until after the holiday. I hope we can figure it out. You sure can't sell fish if they might harbor such an ugly parasite.
    Mama Bear

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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    do you know what med is used, Cliff?
    Yes, ingredient is non-flammable picnic acid
    solution. 1 teaspoon per gallon until you notice the fish is stress this could be no longer than 30 minutes. You can retreat in
    a week. As for Silver Dollars and Tangs
    use half dosages.

    Cliff
    Last edited by CliffsDiscus; 01-01-2020 at 01:04 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by danotaylor View Post
    Is this what is referred to as "lake spots" in wild tangs Cliff?
    It might be the same but not really sure.

    Cliff

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    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Flip, I'm still on this. I haven't contacted either of my guru's because I haven't had contact with either of them for a long while. I didn't want to bother them until after the holiday. I hope we can figure it out. You sure can't sell fish if they might harbor such an ugly parasite.
    Thanks for your help and support Liz . Let's wait and see if Hans or Paul will respond back and offer some solution here.
    Meanwhile I'm thinking of trying a classic dose PP dip / bath of 5-10 minutes with 10 ppm solution .

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus View Post
    Yes, ingredient is non-flammable picnic acid
    solution. 1 teaspoon per gallon until you notice the fish is stress this could be no longer than 30 minutes. You can retreat in
    a week. As for Silver Dollars and Tangs
    use half dosages.

    Cliff
    This is the first time im hearing of Picric Acid and it's use in fish treatments Cliff . I tried to Google about it and very little if none experiences came out . Im not even sure where it can be obtained and what types (flammable /nonflamable ) and % of Picric Acid are available on the market and TBH I'm not feeling very confident using it without fully understanding it . Thanks for the advice though , I've certainly learned something new regarding discus medicine cabinet .
    Last edited by Filip; 01-01-2020 at 08:28 PM.

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    Registered Member seanyuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Black Spot Disease mentioned in Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treament by Dr. Edward J.Noga page 163-166.

    Treatment: Praziquantel bath.
    Grasshopper
    Francis

  14. #14
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by seanyuki View Post
    Black Spot Disease mentioned in Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treament by Dr. Edward J.Noga page 163-166.

    Treatment: Praziquantel bath.
    Thanks a lot Francis . I totally forgot to check Noga's editions on this subject and you have just reminded me to do so .
    I can use Prazi for my main tank also , because it's not very strong medicine and it won't mess my filter too .

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    Registered Member pcsb23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    Good lord, Flip. I have never even heard of this parasite before. My go to Discus disease man is Discus Hans. Paul Butler comes to mind as well. I'll get in touch with them and see if either of them have any experience with it.
    Hello lovely, poacher turned gamekeeper eh Happy New Year!

    Pat messaged me so here I am …

    Hi Filip, have you taken a sample from the fish? Before hitting it with any chemo I'd be tempted to try and nail down what it is your dealing with. If it is a parasite causing these spots then it would be visible under a scope - assuming each spot is a single instance. Have you removed a scale or tow over a spot at all? It generally doesn't do any long term harm. I would look at the scales removed to see if they are discoloured. Also has the fishes behaviour changed? any flicking/flashing type behaviour? (this would be expected with a parasite). I'd also expect the spots to be slightly raised if is blackspot as the spot is a cyst.

    If it is blackspot there must be a host or intermediate in the tank - usually snails. So if you remove the host/intermediate, the blackspot will die out. Looking at the vid I can see it has plants and what looks to be at least one snail.

    I would expect praziquantel to work well if it is blackspot. You could also isolate the fish in a qt tank for a few weeks and see if that changes anything. Note that the discolouration is melanin I think so may not go away or go away slowly. It is also possible that what you are seeing now are the after effects and there is no active disease - if the other fish are free of these spots and no further spots are developing then it suggest there are no active parasites.

    Hope that helps.
    Paul

    Comfortably numb.

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