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Thread: Please help I知 at a loss!

  1. #1
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    Default Please help I知 at a loss!

    Before I go into details I will give you a bit of info on my tank.
    60 gallon tank
    Parameters are
    Ammonia- 0
    Nitrite- 0
    Nitrate- 10
    Ph is a bit low but steady and consistent at 6.5..... stays at that even after a water change as I’ve tested before and after a water change.
    Water changes I do 25-50% daily or every other day.
    Feeding 3x a day and are fed pellets, flakes and beef heart.
    I have well water and do not age my water.

    Now I had 6 discus in the tank which I’ve had for almost 6 months now....... All were doing great.......eating good and very active. Well suddenly one fish started flipping out all over the tank hitting the top and sides. After the episode the fish would look as if it knocked itself out, the it would sit at a top corner breathing a bit heavy. But in a few hours would be swimming around normally. So I upped my water changes and tested the water to make sure parameters were still good. Two days later again the fish did the same thing...... this time more frequently. Upped my water change to 60% and added salt. Fish continued and the next day seemed to be having these episodes so often I knew he wouldn’t make. That same day another fish had the same type of episode in the middle of eating. Both died the next day. 4 days later a third fish did the same thing...... one day of episodes for the 3rd fish and that one died.

    I read on Macs discus page that heat treatment can sometimes fix erratic swimming. So 4 days ago I turned up the heat and my remaining 3 have been doing great and eating good....... but I haven’t seen anything with these 3.

    Well tonight after I fed them I was watching them and another one suddenly flipped out all over the tank and now is at the top of the tank dazed and breathing heavy.

    I do not know what is going on and I’m hoping someone out there can help me. These fish don’t have any visual signs of being sick before the erratic swimming. They are eating good and active so whatever this is seems to just come out of the blue and progress so quickly I don’t know what to do from here!

    Medications I have on hand are but have not used yet as I have no clue what would be used for this if anything.
    Metroplex
    Erythromycin
    PraziPro
    General Cure

    So I’m hoping someone can help me figure out what’s going on. I’m so sad that this is happening.
    Last edited by Chimama; 01-05-2020 at 12:56 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    You say you notice this while feeding, is there any one thing your feeding specifically when you notice this behavior

    Jeanne

  3. #3
    Platinum Member fljones3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    What type of substrate do you have? How old is the aquarium setup? Also, check your heater. Could be going bad although I would doubt that since it only happens at feeding.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    I had switched them to cobalt flakes and pellets but then read that people were having issues with that brand. So they are on beef heart soft pellets from Cascadia and Seachem discus flack with garlic......they were eating the Seachem flakes before the switch and I just added the soft beef heart pellets before the cobalt. I’ve stopped feeding the cobalt brand.

    They also eat frozen beef heart which they have been eating since I’ve had them.
    Last edited by Chimama; 01-05-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    I have checked both heaters........ all is fine with them. Substrate I have a little white gravel, about an inch not a lot. I also clean the gravel every water change. I use a python.

    Aquarium has been running for years. I had angels, a geophagus and some tetras for years before switching to discus.
    Last edited by Chimama; 01-05-2020 at 09:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Try not to feed for one week and leave the lights off , let them rest . Proceed with your regullar maintenance (siphoning + WCs) . Up the WCs if you can age the water , and if you do straight tap stay at your 30% routine .
    Starving discus and aging water prior WCs helped me resolve the whirlling symptoms in the past .
    No harm in trying that too.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Try not to feed for one week and leave the lights off , let them rest . Proceed with your regullar maintenance (siphoning + WCs) . Up the WCs if you can age the water , and if you do straight tap stay at your 30% routine .
    Starving discus and aging water prior WCs helped me resolve the whirlling symptoms in the past .
    No harm in trying that too.
    I will try that. Right now the temp is at 90 as I was trying a heat treatment. Should I lower the temp now or wait? I’ve had it at 90 for 5 days.

  8. #8
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    This has happened a few times with discus on this forum. Won't hurt to try what has been mentioned. Seems like all that had this with their discus in the past were mostly fatal outcomes. It is devastaing to watch all come by this one by one. This has been describied on here to be whirlling disease. Looks like seizures to me. No one seems to know for sure what is going on with these discus.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chimama View Post
    I had switched them to cobalt flakes and pellets but then read that people were having issues with that brand. So they are on beef heart soft pellets from Cascadia and Seachem discus flack with garlic......they were eating the Seachem flakes before the switch and I just added the soft beef heart pellets before the cobalt. I致e stopped feeding the cobalt brand.

    They also eat frozen beef heart which they have been eating since I致e had them.

    I checked out the ingredients in the soft beef heart pellets and I'm not liking them, and also you say that this is a new food and you have been experiencing problems since feeding, I would stop using this food and stick with the Seachem flakes

    Jeanne

  10. #10
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelagoon View Post
    This has happened a few times with discus on this forum. Won't hurt to try what has been mentioned. Seems like all that had this with their discus in the past were mostly fatal outcomes. It is devastaing to watch all come by this one by one. This has been describied on here to be whirlling disease. Looks like seizures to me. No one seems to know for sure what is going on with these discus.
    Yes, I've other people report this as well and I haven't seen a conclusive cause. I've seen isolated cases that affect a single fish which would be more easily explained, but when it moves through and affects them all there has to be a common factor... disease, parasite, water, food or an outside influence...

    Things I would try... Filip's suggestion, change heaters, change up foods and feed only one or two types like FDBW's from Al. If you're on a well, maybe run your water through a carbon block...

  11. #11
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Hi Chimama, I have had plenty of whirling incidents in the past many times with fatal outcomes. It is heart wrenching. For me the trigger was generally which lowing the water in the tank for a water change. The fish would dash around the tank as fast as it could bumping into the sides of the tank and then would either go to the bottom of the tank and do small circles or to the top of the tank breathing hard. The bars of the fish would be super dark.

    In the past I have found adding large qualities of regular salt (one tablespoon per gallon) to help prevent the whirling but you can not keep the fish in salt for long periods of time without harming them over time. Brian and I run the SimplyDiscus discus group of Facebook and one of the member's there tryed heat and it seemed to be working but I do not recall them reporting back on the final result.

    So you may consider adding salt to the mix and continuing with the heat. Please consider this experimental.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Chimama, I have had plenty of whirling incidents in the past many times with fatal outcomes. It is heart wrenching. For me the trigger was generally which lowing the water in the tank for a water change. The fish would dash around the tank as fast as it could bumping into the sides of the tank and then would either go to the bottom of the tank and do small circles or to the top of the tank breathing hard. The bars of the fish would be super dark.

    In the past I have found adding large qualities of regular salt (one tablespoon per gallon) to help prevent the whirling but you can not keep the fish in salt for long periods of time without harming them over time. Brian and I run the SimplyDiscus discus group of Facebook and one of the member's there tryed heat and it seemed to be working but I do not recall them reporting back on the final result.

    So you may consider adding salt to the mix and continuing with the heat. Please consider this experimental.
    Pat
    Thank so much Pat! I have API aquarium salt so I will add some of that and continue with the heat treatment. How long should I do this treatment? I致e been at 90 degrees for 5 days.

  13. #13
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chimama View Post
    Thank so much Pat! I have API aquarium salt so I will add some of that and continue with the heat treatment. How long should I do this treatment? I’ve been at 90 degrees for 5 days.
    That is a really good question Chimama, lets try for 14 days with both the heat and salt. Remember to replace the salt for the volume of water removed. I think some of the food suggestions are worth trying especially if a food is questionable.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  14. #14
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    I've heard of this several times but only experienced it once. John Nicholson swears that he has cured it with nothing but good clean water. When it happened to me, it was my least favorite fish it happened to. I couldn't deal with seeing the fish dash around the tank, crashing into the tank walls until it was exhausted. Once I saw the fish do it a second time, I euthanized it.
    Mama Bear

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Please help I知 at a loss!

    Thank you all so very much! I’m going to take all this advice and hope for the best! I’m going to stick with the Seachem flakes, frozen beef heart and I was also feeding Tetra color granules before I switched them to the other stuff! I will keep the heat up and continue with my daily water changes.

    Also one more thing I forgot to ask....... I use activated carbon in my filter. I read somewhere it not needed unless removing meds. So I would love to hear opinions on this.

    And thank you all so very much!

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