Please help I’m at a loss!

[danotaylor]

That's is true, but if your source water is well water (ground water) and you live in an agricultural district I would run carbon on the water aging system.

[Chimama]

This has happened a few times with discus on this forum. Won't hurt to try what has been mentioned. Seems like all that had this with their discus in the past were mostly fatal outcomes. It is devastaing to watch all come by this one by one. This has been describied on here to be whirlling disease. Looks like seizures to me. No one seems to know for sure what is going on with these discus.

I totally agree that it does in fact look exactly like a seizure to me! And it’s horrible and devastating to watch.

[Chimama]

That's is true, but if your source water is well water (ground water) and you live in an agricultural district I would run carbon on the water aging system.

Unfortunately I don’t have the means to age my water at the moment. I’ve also had these fish for about 6 months with no issues. And I had angels for years with this water and never had issues. So until now I have never even thought about needing to age the water.

[LizStreithorst]

I totally agree that it does in fact look exactly like a seizure to me! And it’s horrible and devastating to watch.

I suffered petit mal seizures until I was in my mid 20's. They felt terrible both before and after. They were also exhausting. Once I saw my fish go through that I simply could not handle having to see it again. I'm generally not so weak.

I wish I could tell you how to fix it, but I can't. I did a search here. It's called Whirling disease. There's some stuff in the archives about it but I didn't see anyone come up with a for sure cure. You may want to search further. It's a very sad condition. I hope you have good luck.

[Chimama]

I suffered petit mal seizures until I was in my mid 20's. They felt terrible both before and after. They were also exhausting. Once I saw my fish go through that I simply could not handle having to see it again. I'm generally not so weak.

I wish I could tell you how to fix it, but I can't. I did a search here. It's called Whirling disease. There's some stuff in the archives about it but I didn't see anyone come up with a for sure cure. You may want to search further. It's a very sad condition. I hope you have good luck.

Thank you so much. I’ve also done quite a bit of looking into this issue and I’ve had zero luck finding much. It’s being talked about all over but it seems like no one can find a solution or even a reason for it. It just makes me feel so discouraged as I love these fish and have always wanted to have them. I’ve also been trying to do everything correctly with water changes and testing making sure their water is clean with good parameters.

[LizStreithorst]

Are these fish related at all or did they all come from the same source? I wonder if there is a genetic component?

[Chimama]

Are these fish related at all or did they all come from the same source? I wonder if there is a genetic component?

We got them from two different local places. I did not quarantine as I was unaware I needed too when I bought them. Luckily all has been good for the last 6 months. I do now have a qt tank set up that’s been running for a few months in case I needed it. Before I purchased them I did a basic read on maintenance that they needed. After I got them is when I started reading others stories. That’s when I set up the qt tank just in case.

[bluelagoon]

Are these fish related at all or did they all come from the same source? I wonder if there is a genetic component?

I'm wondering if they are all coming from a Vietnam breeder. It seems to happen at about 4-4.5" healthy looking discus. Usually during or after a WC. Very Strange.

[Sturiosoma]

Now that sounds like a whole new issue, is your well water treated in any way and are you sure your not having a ph swing

Jeanne

[dspeers]

Not sure if you found this but a very good discussion of what you are going through with additional links, not all of which have I had a chance to review: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...irling-Disease Ultimately somewhat frustrating as treatments that work for some do not seem to be consistently repeatable which argues for coincidence over causality.

From a medical perspective, the sequential evolution of victims which happens frequently (although not universally) argues for some sort of infectious cause with a several day incubation period. The sequence of being passed on to only one or a few victims, then repeating argues for a relatively low pathogenicity (ability to pass on clinical infection) vs high virulence (harm, in this case usually death). Unfortunately the pattern is not all that helpful and in addition such deductive speculation in medicine absent concrete evidence is often nothing more than a method to screw up with confidence.

Al makes a fairly compelling argument (page 2 from above thread) that the cause or at least contributing factor may be due to gas supersaturation (AKA microbubbles) which argues for an absolute requirement (independent of ph stabilization) for aging your water source to dissipate supersaturated gasses. Both agitation and bringing up temperature during aging facilitates this process (FYI, aeration of relatively cold water increases saturation or in Texan: circulation pump good, airstone bad). Also lowering the flow rate of replacement water into the main tank reduces the effects of any residual supersaturation. Alternately the dissipation time can be calculated:
Offgassing.png

That's supposed to be funny........hopefully worked, my first picture

I have already decided to go with a low flow Apex pump system for each of my tanks (disabled, don't move buckets of water around anymore....and frankly lazy) for auto water changes 3 hours outflow then 3 hours in from a 90 gal storage tank (with heat and circulation pump). I would also immediately isolate in a hospital tank, if not the first affected fish certainly the second and would also, given the usual outcome, probably try one or more of the treatments mentioned in the linked thread that have been intermittently effective. In a perfect world something would actually work and I would then use in the display if I had additional cases. I wish you luck.

[dspeers]

Oh yea, TDG is total dissolved gasses and DO dissolved Oxygen. What did surprise me was the persistence of supersaturation downstream, this was in rivers downstream from dams after spill events, well beyond 24 hours. How applicable to aquarium settings, who knows. If interested https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oir-System.pdf

[Chimama]

Oh yea, TDG is total dissolved gasses and DO dissolved Oxygen. What did surprise me was the persistence of supersaturation downstream, this was in rivers downstream from dams after spill events, well beyond 24 hours. How applicable to aquarium settings, who knows. If interested https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oir-System.pdf

Not sure if you found this but a very good discussion of what you are going through with additional links, not all of which have I had a chance to review: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...irling-Disease Ultimately somewhat frustrating as treatments that work for some do not seem to be consistently repeatable which argues for coincidence over causality.

From a medical perspective, the sequential evolution of victims which happens frequently (although not universally) argues for some sort of infectious cause with a several day incubation period. The sequence of being passed on to only one or a few victims, then repeating argues for a relatively low pathogenicity (ability to pass on clinical infection) vs high virulence (harm, in this case usually death). Unfortunately the pattern is not all that helpful and in addition such deductive speculation in medicine absent concrete evidence is often nothing more than a method to screw up with confidence.

Al makes a fairly compelling argument (page 2 from above thread) that the cause or at least contributing factor may be due to gas supersaturation (AKA microbubbles) which argues for an absolute requirement (independent of ph stabilization) for aging your water source to dissipate supersaturated gasses. Both agitation and bringing up temperature during aging facilitates this process (FYI, aeration of relatively cold water increases saturation or in Texan: circulation pump good, airstone bad). Also lowering the flow rate of replacement water into the main tank reduces the effects of any residual supersaturation. Alternately the dissipation time can be calculated:
Offgassing.png

That's supposed to be funny........hopefully worked, my first picture

I have already decided to go with a low flow Apex pump system for each of my tanks (disabled, don't move buckets of water around anymore....and frankly lazy) for auto water changes 3 hours outflow then 3 hours in from a 90 gal storage tank (with heat and circulation pump). I would also immediately isolate in a hospital tank, if not the first affected fish certainly the second and would also, given the usual outcome, probably try one or more of the treatments mentioned in the linked thread that have been intermittently effective. In a perfect world something would actually work and I would then use in the display if I had additional cases. I wish you luck.

I had not seen that post! Thank you for the link! From what I’ve read there seems to be so many different possibilities! Things from possible water issues, parasites, neurological issues....... all the info is quite helpful yet can leave one wondering what really is the cause! I saw many who use aged water and still had the issue. I will say it certainly looks like seizure activity........ which is exactly what I thought of when I saw how it clustered. Starts off with a couple and then ends with episodes happening more frequent and closer together........ just like clusters of grand mal seizures!

As of right now I’m on day 6 of heat treatment and added salt last night. So far since starting the heat treatment I’ve seen only one episode. Seeing how my others progressed to having back to back episodes with 48 hours of the first episode, it’s better. Will the heat and salt work? I don’t know but I’m hoping it does. Now could it be a parasite? Possibly but determining what it is and what to treat with would be needed would not be easy. It’s so hard to treat something when you have no idea what it is.

Our well water is filtered and I do use prime when doing a water change. Right now I have nothing to age water in, I’m hoping it’s not the water. I’ve had these guys for about 6 months so wouldn’t the water have affected them before this? And what about all the angels I used to have? I would assume if the water was the issue I would have had issues with them too? Sorry if those questions about the water sound silly. And I do have activated carbon in my filter on the tank. And I will be looking into something to age my water. And with the link to the other thread, I also read where some did age their water and still had issues. It’s so baffling as to what whirling disease could actually be caused from.

So hopefully the heat treatment works for me. It’s so sad to see a healthy happy discus progressing so nicely and end up like this. Makes me fell so helpless when I’m doing everything I can to get things back to normal.

And again I can’t thank you all enough with all of your helpful advice!