Not the best start !

[knobs]

TL : DR : What to do with this poor orange razorhead ? ( see pics )

Allright. This might be long.


Hi !

I've been keeping fish and aquariums and aquascapes with co2 and nutrients for about 5 years now.
I know basic water chemics, fish treatment, spotting illnesses, what species go together, food, care, water changes... I'm not a total noob.

That said, i've wanted discus for a very long time, but i waited for the good moment to feel confident in doing this.
So 1 year ago, i bought 5 Stendker discus fish from local dealer. ( Europe, Belgium, all fish come from Germany Stendker )

I put them in a tank that is 150 x 50 x 50, 7 fish, 12 cm.
Planted with a lot of substrate, lots of caves, lots of debris, spiderwood and seiryu stones.
( ADA amazonia II , layer of + 15 cm )
Thought i could do it ...
Looked fine the first couple of weeks ! ...
Please dont judge me for my mistakes, we all made them and learned from them i guess.

1.jpg
Can you see that depth of substrate ^^ ?

I maintained a weekly 80 % water change, while feeding them frozen beefheart 2 / 3 times a day.
Still, thinking this is ok.

Reading my water values, nitrites and nitrate were always low when water changing, i've never had any nitrite peaks or ph crashes.
So in my mind all was fine.
( This still bugs me out why i cant keep discus in a planted tank if nitrites and nitrates are in safe zones.)

Then, after a good month things were going bad.
One started losing weight and isolating itself in the bushes.
White poop, long slimy.
Fin rot started happening, eating the fins away.
That one passed away after 2 weeks.

I maintained weekly water changes, thinking it was enough. Test strips and test kit showed safe values.
Other fish were ok-ish, ( as my amateur mind made up off course. )

Save to say i was not enjoying the whole adventure and started really thinking about all the stuff i was doing.
Expensive, delicate fish dying and not thriving makes me feel a bad fishkeeper.
So i started really really reading up on the whole discus story and decided i could not keep these fish in that tank with all these plants.
If anyone can point me out why my discus get finrot in a planted tank with water parameters being all fine, that would help me a lot !

So i bought a second tank, to keep as a bare bottom tank with high filtration to keep the discus. ( Thank god single life, no way a woman would let me have 2 tanks in the living room. )
Maybe later i'll add some little substrate and some vallisneria, but first i need to make sure i'm doing everything right.
The tank isn't too big , but it was the max length i could do to fit in the living room.
It's some kind of an emergency solution to get them asap out of the planted tank, it's the best i can do right now.

Its a LIDO 200 - 71 x 51 x 65 cm / 300 liters

2.jpg

So after the first fish dying, there was still a good month between the transfer of the tanks.
In that month, i kept my water changes up to 2 times a week, 80 procent.

Still bad problems !

3 fish developed finrot .....
You can see the worst victim, it's the orange one.
The rest have minor fin deterioration and one was breathing only from one gill.

I could kill myself for not seeing this more early, i was/am new to discus and could not spot defaults or illnesses fast enough yet.
Save to say i was really, really bummed out of the whole discus startup.
Friends ask me how it went and it was no fun to tell them i'm messing up big time.

I transferred the discus to the new tank, once it had the right water values.
At that time i decided to treat with metronidazole ( parasites ) as i got a prescription from the vet.
And with BAKTOPUR DIRECT for finrot, but not at the same time. I did the treatment with 2 weeks rest in between with many water changes.

That has been 2 months ago.
5 Fish are doing a lot better after introducing them in a bare bottom tank.
1 Fish is in bad shape, but he's eating and swimming, but he's so freaking skinny.

I think this is a main example of the so called razor head ? ( I don't want to hear this, but my guess is that he is too far gone to heal up again ? )
Here are some pictures to show what i am talking about.
3.jpg
Bad case of finrot.

This is the razor head i am talking about.
He's eating and swimming and not hiding. But he is EXTREMELY behind in growth and weight.
4.jpg
5.jpg
6.jpg
7.jpg

As you can see, the rest is doing fine now and actually healing up from the finrot, as am doing water changes every other day for 50 procent and once a week a 90 procent and there are no high nitrates are any waste from plants, other than their poop, which i vaccuum every day.
But this guy, what to do man ...

Do is separate him in a bucket with a heater and some airflow ?
I think he still has parasites, because he eats but does not get any bigger.
Treat again with the same medication, or something else ?
Or do i have to cull this one ... ( which i really, really do not want to do )
Having him in the tank with the other ones doesn't seems to be a very good idea to me.
( aaaaaarfggh !!! )

PH : 7 -7.4
Temp 30 Celcius
Nitrites, always 0
Nitrates in planted tank are also zero or very close to it.
GH TD TH : Between 7 - 10 , Belgium tap water, dealer uses same tap water.
Kh 6.8 - 7.2

What would be your thoughts about the whole adventure ?
I know i really messed up on the initial start, but i really want things to succeed.
Why did they develop finrot so fast, even when the readings said 0 nitrite 0 nitrate ?
Is it due the debris from the plants or something ?

They're doing way better now in the other tank, with more frequent water changes, but i need to know what to do with the orange one in bad shape.
Can it be saved ? What treatment would you give it ?
( Not being a breeder, but a keeper. )
I want to keep it alive.

Thank you all for reading this,
having discus is an extremely learning adventure, it's not something you do as a side thing.
You need to invest passion and time into it. They reflect their care immediately.
Makes me more disciplined. But watching the fish growing and become fat bastards makes me feel really proud.
They are stunning fish, it's a shame i've messed up my start. Please don't have me killed for this. We all learn our way.

I hope you guys can give me some directions.
Thank you all.
Feel free to use the pictures as a reference on how not to keep discus.

[peewee1]

You have an impressive aquarium. Were the fish sick when you purchased them, perhaps? If all of the fish are sick then why not use the tank as the quarantine and treat them all. I have done this from time to time when adding met or salt treatments.

[BrendanJ23]

Hi mate and welcome to SD.

You’re in with a Chance as you’re come to the right place. Good move on shifting them to the BB tank. To me it looks like the fish in question is stunted and won’t recover to a proper shape or size, but may live if treated. I would start with the daily 50% WC’s and you could add salt at 1TBSP/10 US GAL.

An important thing to keep in mind and is not always obvious, is that you’re only testing for a few main parameters. This doesn’t necessarily mean your water is clean and you can’t measure bacterial counts in your water etc.

[knobs]

Thank you for your reply man !

Aquarium is a optic white tank, but it looks a bit sad, i've decided to redo the whole thing after 2 years.
( it was overgrown and cut today, hence the moss and stuff is all jerky Has seen its better days.)
Time for more stones and less wood, carpet plants !
But the discus will never move here again, i only want minimal setup due recent experiences.
I have no idea if the fish were sick when purchased.
I've treated the tank with metro and baktopur, all of them al doing better, except the razorhead.
So i'm not sure of everyone is still sick.

Basically, all of them are doing better after treatment, except one.
Thanks !

[knobs]

Thank Brendan !
I heard this was a good place.
Saw that founder movie on youtube giving a presentation about discus, referring to this place.
So much knowledge. I stand in Awe.

I've dosed salt today. Check.
Waterchanges ... Check.
Slave for the hobby ..

It's good that no one has said , 'Kill it , kill it now.

Thanks for the tips.

[danotaylor]

To me the fin issue does not look like rot, but perhaps ammonia or nitrate burns. Do you age your water?
The pigeon blood in question has either a chronic case of hexatemia, which requires heat (92-94F) and metronidazole 500mg/10gal twice daily for 10-12 days with a 50%water change 1 time daily before dosing, OR internal worms requiring levamisole &/or praziquantel. I have never treated for worms so I cannot advise on dosing. In the absence of absolute diagnosis I would treat for hex first. Your other look to be in good condition, so perhaps less likely worms...
As Brendan said, that fish is in very bad condition atm, and looks like it was probably stunted when you bought it. The eye to body ratio is way off on 2 of them actually.
If treated appropriately, the fish in question may survive and regain condition but probably won't grow any more.
It is very difficult to grow juvenile discus to adulthood in a fully planted tank. Use the search engine here for opinions on planted tank challenges and successes.