Breathing From One Gill & Losing Appetite

[jamesx]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

One active discus fish has lost appetite since last week and I've found the fish hiding and breathing with one gill only. There hasn't been any new fish introduced to the tank. I have had the fish for 4 months now and it had always been very active. However, I did lost a neon tetra, and I suspected that this discus might be the cause.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Turning dark, not eating, clamped fins occasionally, breathing normally but only from one gill, poop looks normal.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

None yet

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

60G, been running for 1.5 years, 7 juv discus between 4 to 5" in length

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

90% every day

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

The tank has been running for 1.5 year approximately. It's a bare bottom tank.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

I don't age water. The PH swing is around 0.2

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

Adding Prime directly to tank while adding new water with Python. I double dose Prime every time.

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ___87__

- ph __6.6___

- ammonia reading __0.5ppm at end of day before water change__

- nitrite reading _0___

- nitrate reading _5___

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __100%__

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

No, but I replaced my old HOB filter with a canister filter and a sponge filter last month, which is why I have an ammonia spike at 0.5ppm every day.

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

I feed my fish 4 times a day. 1st feeding on FBW, 2nd & 3rd feedings on Fluval Bug Bites pellets, 4th feeding on homemade beef heart mix before water change. I do experience a detritus worm outbreak in my filter possibly due to over feeding.





Above is my questionaire and answers... I've had this fish since 4 months ago and it has always been an active fish, although he gets picked on by other fish all the time. Recently, I have noticed a drastically decreasing in activity with this fish, especially when it comes to eating. I notice that the fish would come out and begging for food when I offer beef heart mix, but he would soon lose interest after pecking a few times and quickly go back to hiding. I thought the issue would go away by itself by large water change with time, but just tonight I found him breathing from only one gill. The other gill stays tight while breathing, although I don't notice any heavy breathing.

Is this some sort of parasite? What kind of treatment/medicine can I get for this poor fish? Is it safe to treat the entire tank? Thanks a lot in advance!

[BrendanJ23]

My initial guess would be gill flukes, so yes a parasite. I'd probably start by separating him and placing him into a QT tank, with salt at 1 TBSP/10 gal for stress.

My concern is that you're getting large ammonia reading each day, this would be highly toxic and highly stressful for your fish. Did you not seed your new filters with media from the old HOB? I'd be looking into using praziquantel for the suspected parasite, but I'd wait until someone more experienced chimes in. For now, just isolate him and add the salt to reduce the stress on him

[Mando]

My initial guess would be gill flukes, so yes a parasite. I'd probably start by separating him and placing him into a QT tank, with salt at 1 TBSP/10 gal for stress.

My concern is that you're getting large ammonia reading each day, this would be highly toxic and highly stressful for your fish. Did you not seed your new filters with media from the old HOB? I'd be looking into using praziquantel for the suspected parasite, but I'd wait until someone more experienced chimes in. For now, just isolate him and add the salt to reduce the stress on him

I was going to recommend salt as well. OP, you have to take care of the Ammonia. You should not have any by the end of the day. Looks like you lost your cycle or something is wrong with your filtration. I'm thinking that your issue would be the 90% everyday. That's a lot of water and I always lose my cycle when I do those large changes. Your discus are already 4-5", I'd drop water changes to 50% every day rather than 90%.

You can dose prime if you suspect an ammonia spike while your filter catches up.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi James, when do you test for ammonia in relation to your water change?
Pat

[bluelagoon]

Just a note your amonnia shouldn't be toxic at 6.6 ph.

[jamesx]

My initial guess would be gill flukes, so yes a parasite. I'd probably start by separating him and placing him into a QT tank, with salt at 1 TBSP/10 gal for stress.

My concern is that you're getting large ammonia reading each day, this would be highly toxic and highly stressful for your fish. Did you not seed your new filters with media from the old HOB? I'd be looking into using praziquantel for the suspected parasite, but I'd wait until someone more experienced chimes in. For now, just isolate him and add the salt to reduce the stress on him

Hi Bendan. Thanks for your input! I unfortunately don't have a separate tank (wife already complaint about one big tank...). Is it safe to salt the entire tank? With Epsom salt?

I don't think the ammonia is the cause here, as it has been like that since I replaced my filter in more than a month ago. Keep in mind that my PH is super low at 6.4 at the end of the day, some times as low as 6.0. I think this is the main reason why I'm having a hard time regaining my beneficial bacterial colony back, but the harmful ammonia becomes much harmless ammonium (comparable to nitrate) in this low PH.

[jamesx]

I was going to recommend salt as well. OP, you have to take care of the Ammonia. You should not have any by the end of the day. Looks like you lost your cycle or something is wrong with your filtration. I'm thinking that your issue would be the 90% everyday. That's a lot of water and I always lose my cycle when I do those large changes. Your discus are already 4-5", I'd drop water changes to 50% every day rather than 90%.

You can dose prime if you suspect an ammonia spike while your filter catches up.

Mando, it's great to see your comment here! Much appreciated!

I don't think the ammonia is the main cause here, although it might stress my fish a bit. My PH is really low at 6.6 ~ 6.4 most of the time. Most ammonia in this acidic water should be ammonium, which is much less harmful. I lost my cycle because I replaced my old HOB filter with a new canister and a sponge filter. I move all of the bio media from my old HOB to the new canister filter, thinking it's good enough to go, but it never really catch up. I wonder if it's also because of the super low PH which might have stopped the beneficial bacteria colony from growing. I tried 2 bottles of Tetra Safestart bottled bacteria with little luck as well.

Other than the low PH environment, I also triple prime my tank every day after a 90% water change, just to keep the ammonia safe absolutely. By reducing the amount of water change, I worry I may not be removing enough ammonia/ammonium and therefore it might accumulate over time. Is that a valid concern?

Some people suggest adding salt to my water. Is it safe to add it to the whole main tank?

[jamesx]

Just a note your amonnia shouldn't be toxic at 6.6 ph.

Thanks my friend! Yes, the ammonia to ammonium ratio is 1:300 at PH below 7, which means the 0.5ppm ammonia is almost all ammonium.

[LizStreithorst]

I would take care of the breathing issue first. PP or formalin are other options. The PP does it's job in just 4 hrs, but it's a little scary to use it the first time. If the fish doesn't recover in a week's time, I would do a 12 day metro treatment and crank your heat up to 90.

Since you've had an ammonia spike, it will be followed by a spike in nitrates. Meth Blue detoxifies the nitrites. Be sure to have some on hand for when the time comes.

Hope this helps.

[jamesx]

I would take care of the breathing issue first. PP or formalin are other options. The PP does it's job in just 4 hrs, but it's a little scary to use it the first time. If the fish doesn't recover in a week's time, I would do a 12 day metro treatment and crank your heat up to 90.

Since you've had an ammonia spike, it will be followed by a spike in nitrates. Meth Blue detoxifies the nitrites. Be sure to have some on hand for when the time comes.

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot Liz!!! Did you mean potassium permanganate by PP? It is really hard to find here in Canada... I've asked many lfs and they don't carry it. I do have access to API General Cure which I believe is a mix of metron and prazi. Is that an effective treatment? Is it safe to dose my entire tank?

[Sturiosoma]

I was going to recommend salt as well. OP, you have to take care of the Ammonia. You should not have any by the end of the day. Looks like you lost your cycle or something is wrong with your filtration. I'm thinking that your issue would be the 90% everyday. That's a lot of water and I always lose my cycle when I do those large changes. Your discus are already 4-5", I'd drop water changes to 50% every day rather than 90%.

You can dose prime if you suspect an ammonia spike while your filter catches up.

I have to agree with Mando here 90% daily is a bit much and if you know you've lost your cycle and that's when the troubles began, then I would take Mandos advice and cut back on the water changes and get your cycle back, and the last thing I would do would be to throw med in your tank that will only further destroy whatever good you have going on your tank, so I would get your water straight first and see if your fish improve

Jeanne

[jamesx]

I have to agree with Mando here 90% daily is a bit much and if you know you've lost your cycle and that's when the troubles began, then I would take Mandos advice and cut back on the water changes and get your cycle back, and the last thing I would do would be to throw med in your tank that will only further destroy whatever good you have going on your tank, so I would get your water straight first and see if your fish improve

Jeanne

Thanks a lot for your input, Jeanne! I feed my discus beef heart mix which leaves a huge mess, and so I do 90% water change every day to clean everything up. Also, I've learnt from this forum that doing large water change is good for fish?

I also worry that cutting back on water change will not remove enough ammonia in my water. Would you suggest to replace the beef heart mix with something much cleaner such as frozen blood worms? My fish always finish up the frozen blood worms so quickly that nothing ever leaves behind after a few minutes.

[LizStreithorst]

with just a .2 pH drop, I think you're fine doing 90%. Yes on the PP. We use that appreciation for it a lot here. The amount of metro is right for General Cure. You will need to treat for 12 days. I'm not sure of the dosage for Prazi, but I know that treatment doesn't last for 10 days. Perhaps a daily dose for 12 days with 90% WC would be OK for the fish, but I have no way to know if all that Prazi would harm them.

[Sturiosoma]

Thanks a lot for your input, Jeanne! I feed my discus beef heart mix which leaves a huge mess, and so I do 90% water change every day to clean everything up. Also, I've learnt from this forum that doing large water change is good for fish?

I also worry that cutting back on water change will not remove enough ammonia in my water. Would you suggest to replace the beef heart mix with something much cleaner such as frozen blood worms? My fish always finish up the frozen blood worms so quickly that nothing ever leaves behind after a few minutes.

You have to understand that with water changes sometimes too much is no good and you can't just go by someone telling you do this, and if you know you've lost your cycle your not gonna get it back with a 90% water change you need good water to start with and don't let anyone tell you to medicate until you get your water straight, try Mandos advice

Jeanne

[jamesx]

Hi James, when do you test for ammonia in relation to your water change?
Pat

Hi Pat! Just realized I missed your post here. I do my ammonia test at the end of the day before I do the large water change. It reads 0.5ppm or a bit less everyday. My PH is between 6.6 to 6.4.