Purpose of water changes

[fuz940510]

Hi everyone

Long gap in posting, but life has been a bit hectic. Tank that i was going to use exploded during outside leak test, moved house, started studying etc...

Anywho, my question is: Why do water changes?

The generic, easily available answer is to maintain perfect water quality, but finding good examples of what we're trying to remove/dilute isn't as specific.

Basic ideas that are mentioned are:
1. Removal of nitrogenous compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)
2. Removing decaying organic matter (left over food, fish poop etc) which can result in phosphate spikes
3. Restore missing trace elements and minerals that get used up

Now, the Triton method for Saltwater got me thinking. To provide solutions for the points above, they would be:
1. Duckweed/floating plants/hang on back "refugium"/riparium for nutrient export
2. Same as point 1, but with a substrate vac for particulate matter
3. Adding an appropriate (confirmed with testing) amount of a gH/kH booster to tank when topping up

Is there anything i'm missing? I know there are the discussions around GIH, but let's leave that out for now.

Good to be back, happy to be learning!
Cheers,
Kean

[Shan_Evolved]

Welcome back to the forums!

I'm new here but my mindset is simple - I feed messy beefheart multiple times a day and it makes my water nasty dirty. I can smell it. Meat spoils and as it breaks apart into cloudy nastiness and I know it gets mixed in with the water so I feel compelled to change it.

I also feel slime buildup on walls and tubes and wood, so when I wipe everything down, it makes the water dirtier as well.

Not to mention sponges pick up bits of food and poop all day, so I gotta give them a rinse as well.

Combined all in all the water gets dirty - fast.

But the number one reason I do my water change is because I love my fishies and want to give them the best.

[jeep]

Welcome back!!! Here's a good link for reading on this subject...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...-Are-Important

[Willie]

It's not about nitrates, phosphates, etc., but more about the bioload. If the inside of your tank is slimy, then the water quality is far from desirable. The article does a really good job explaining the details. Practically speaking, success requires making large, frequent water changes and wiping down the inside surfaces.

The younger the discus, the more important this is. You'll find a thread about a grow out competition elsewhere on the site where the ones raised under optimal conditions show better growth within 2 - 3 weeks. When they're 2" fish, water, frequent water changes is critical. It becomes far less important with adult discus.

Willie

[fuz940510]

Welcome back to the forums!

I'm new here but my mindset is simple - I feed messy beefheart multiple times a day and it makes my water nasty dirty. I can smell it. Meat spoils and as it breaks apart into cloudy nastiness and I know it gets mixed in with the water so I feel compelled to change it.

I also feel slime buildup on walls and tubes and wood, so when I wipe everything down, it makes the water dirtier as well.

Not to mention sponges pick up bits of food and poop all day, so I gotta give them a rinse as well.

Combined all in all the water gets dirty - fast.

But the number one reason I do my water change is because I love my fishies and want to give them the best.

Thanks! Wouldn't that slime buildup be beneficial though, all the extra bacteria?

[fuz940510]

Welcome back!!! Here's a good link for reading on this subject...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...-Are-Important

Thank you! If i'm reading that right, the idea is to make sure that the aquarium has nothing but fish and water - no mulm, no detritus, no nothing. If that is the case, then wouldn't maintaining filters then be seen as being more important?

[fuz940510]

It's not about nitrates, phosphates, etc., but more about the bioload. If the inside of your tank is slimy, then the water quality is far from desirable. The article does a really good job explaining the details. Practically speaking, success requires making large, frequent water changes and wiping down the inside surfaces.

The younger the discus, the more important this is. You'll find a thread about a grow out competition elsewhere on the site where the ones raised under optimal conditions show better growth within 2 - 3 weeks. When they're 2" fish, water, frequent water changes is critical. It becomes far less important with adult discus.

Willie

So the slime containing the benficial and non-beneficial bacteria is best avoided. So the task then wouldn't necessarily be the water change, rather the removal of the slime from the system. Water changes are just the most convenient way to remove this lifted slime

[Willie]

Thank you! If i'm reading that right, the idea is to make sure that the aquarium has nothing but fish and water - no mulm, no detritus, no nothing. If that is the case, then wouldn't maintaining filters then be seen as being more important?

1. Generally, there's very little to filter with regular water changes and wipe downs. I just use sponges for biological filtration.
2. Filters don't remove stuff. It just puts it in a box no longer visible to you. Chemically speaking, it's still there.

Willie

[bluelagoon]

Plus the sludge (slime) hinders the bacteria from getting O2. The bacteria is similar tooth plague attached to surfaces. Filters need regular cleaning, they sludge up too. In time clean water is flowing through this dirty sludge and not cleaning the water properly.

[fuz940510]

That makes sense, thanks all

On to more planning and reading!

[bluelagoon]

It's basically an incubator for anaerobic diseases.

[fuz940510]

I had another thought about this - would a UV steriliser help with controlling the biomass, provided you get it off the surfaces and into the water column?

[bluelagoon]

UV only works on killing pathogens. Does nothing for water quality. There are not many short cuts where discus are concerned, some one would have figured it out by now. There are systems but not for individual homes.

[fuz940510]

To make a quick summary of it, having good water quality is not only down to the amounts of nitrogenous compounds in the water column. Water quality is also affected by the toxins released by biomass that accumulates due to uneaten fish food, fish poop etc.

Rather than just applying the generic name of "toxins", is there any literature documenting what these toxins are?

I find the easiest way for me to understand something is to try and pick holes in the theory behind it. I struggle to do any task if the rationale is "because someone said so"

[LizStreithorst]

You can always try your first Discus without doing WC. Experience is the best teacher. But what with all the people who do it this way and fail, we're trying to save you time, money and heartache of going through it yourself.