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Thread: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

  1. #166
    Registered Member Shan_Evolved's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Here is how they are doing. None seem super dark but I still see occasional funny behavior like fin twitching. They will only really eat live brine shrimp and live black worms

    Amateur discuskeeper, Professional doofus

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    Registered Member Shan_Evolved's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    I have let the tap water sit in a small cup with a bubbler in it for hours and hours and measured PH.

    This is the results i'm getting -

    Straight Tap : 7.4-7.2

    Aging Barrel 24 hr : 7.4-7.2

    Small Cup with bubbler in it hrs later : 7.4-7.2 (I thought PH would go down but it didnt??)

    Tank - 6.8-6.6


    ________________

    So really odd. My Ph in my tank only goes down. Nothing else I can do makes the tap water PH go down besides my tank. ???? Is this possibly related to whatever PH additive is in the water here? Obviously not gassing off but having a reaction with bacterias in my tank.


    In other news I have the RO Right and Seachem Alkaline Buffer. Per stendker website I will try to get 7-8 KH with a mixture of RO Right and Alkaline buffer
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Watch Ph while using RO, it can lower Ph down to 6 very quickly.

    O2 pump won’t reduce Ph, contributors to Ph reduction in your tank mainly are CO2, pee and poop from fish.

    Natural ways to reduce Ph in your aging barrel you could try are adding driftwood, plants, peat moss

  4. #169
    Registered Member Shan_Evolved's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Does anyone here know exactly what RO Right adds to the water?
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Hello Shan I believe I responded to your thread early on in your post and I thought you had water issues, and I still believe that early on you were showing toxic levels of amonia and 0 nitrates have you resolved those issues, and also your KH is low leaving you wide open for ph swings , if it were me I would stop meds for a while and try to fix my water and I would start by checking my parameters again to see where my amonia is and also my nitrates, I would also add crushed coral directly to the tank to bring up my KH and I would limit my water changes to 30% until I get my KH up ,and just one more thing here and I will be done with this thread, should you treat again with pp you do not want to neutralize with peroxide that is a lethal cocktail, I would instead seek the advice of someone experienced in the use of pp such as coral bandit aka Tom ,I believe if you get your water fixed your fish will improve

    Jeanne

  6. #171
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Quote Originally Posted by Shan_Evolved View Post
    Does anyone here know exactly what RO Right adds to the water?
    Hi Shan, I think RO Right only affects GH. Perhaps you could compare your KH before and after adding RO Right.
    Pat
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  7. #172
    Registered Member Shan_Evolved's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Thanks Pat that's exactly what I did and brought it up because my GH nor KH changed after adding RO Right. Maybe my GH changed by barely 1 degree but it was already at 4-5. My KH did not change from 2. However after adding Alkaline Buffer, my KH changed to 4-5 but my PH went up too. It might even be in the high PH range. Is this alright?

    HI Jeanne I stopped meds 2 weeks ago
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    That's my experience with Alkaline Buffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shan_Evolved View Post
    Thanks Pat that's exactly what I did and brought it up because my GH nor KH changed after adding RO Right. Maybe my GH changed by barely 1 degree but it was already at 4-5. My KH did not change from 2. However after adding Alkaline Buffer, my KH changed to 4-5 but my PH went up too. It might even be in the high PH range. Is this alright?

    HI Jeanne I stopped meds 2 weeks ago

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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    At a kh of 2 and TDS 74, your water doesn't contain much, other than what the water company may use to protect the lines. I was recommending the RO Rite because it helps with overall water chemistry and health as it relates to your GH. The alkaline buffer will stabilize your kh/ph. I like this approach because I felt your water needed more than just a stable ph and it may be better than just adding a single item to combat ph alone. I can't remember the exact things your LFS guy uses, but it sounds like he's created a good formula for his setup, and even using a different brand he is doing almost exactly what you are now doing. I hope this works!!!

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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Corono nono update:

    I haven't lost a fish yet so that's good, the fish are eating live brine shrimp, hiakari frozen blood worrms, and cobalt hans flakes sparingly. They are not devouring the food but they are still eating slowly, at least the brine shrimp. They ignore the blood worms for awhile but occasionally I'll see them eating it.

    Bad news is I am still seeing some unusual behavior, but rarely.

    -Noticed my marlboro flicking his head side to side like a human would do if there was a fly on your nose. He would flick and shake his head a few times, then swim fast, shake again, but gradually stop. I haven't seen him do it more than just the 1 time, but I am watching.

    -One of my wonders seemed to be using the wire on my heater to scratch at his face/side randomly. But again this is all rare behavior. I haven't seen them do it at all since the one time.

    98% of the time at least what I've seen they act sort of normal minus the aggression. Some of them have pecked each other in the face I think they left bruises.

    And lastly my cobalt has been dark/lethargic but he is the runt of the bunch that made it this far
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Curious what the head flicking behavior is? I've noticed a few of my fish display this behavior but with their caudal fins.... They start quickly shaking the fin rapidly like they're trying to get something off of them....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shan_Evolved View Post
    Corono nono update:

    I haven't lost a fish yet so that's good, the fish are eating live brine shrimp, hiakari frozen blood worrms, and cobalt hans flakes sparingly. They are not devouring the food but they are still eating slowly, at least the brine shrimp. They ignore the blood worms for awhile but occasionally I'll see them eating it.

    Bad news is I am still seeing some unusual behavior, but rarely.

    -Noticed my marlboro flicking his head side to side like a human would do if there was a fly on your nose. He would flick and shake his head a few times, then swim fast, shake again, but gradually stop. I haven't seen him do it more than just the 1 time, but I am watching.

    -One of my wonders seemed to be using the wire on my heater to scratch at his face/side randomly. But again this is all rare behavior. I haven't seen them do it at all since the one time.

    98% of the time at least what I've seen they act sort of normal minus the aggression. Some of them have pecked each other in the face I think they left bruises.

    And lastly my cobalt has been dark/lethargic but he is the runt of the bunch that made it this far
    We have found much of heaven and have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence

  12. #177
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    If you're adding buffers to your tank, check your pH daily. You'll find that phosphate based buffers will hold for only 1 - 2 days, depending on your bioload. Very simply, phosphate ions are consumed constantly by microflora in the water so they no longer provide buffering capacity. It's an example of rampant marketing hype in the industry. These are indeed buffers, but they simply are not effective in aquaria.

    As for R/O Right, taste it. You'll find it's mostly sodium chloride. I've kept discus in pure R/O for long periods of time without having a pH crash. Discus evolved in very soft water and pH is not a real thing when water is soft. You can certainly buffer with crushed coral. Just put a layer in your water storage tank. I don't think it does anything, but then it does no harm.

    Buffers and R/O Right will cause constant fluctuations in your water chemistry which will stress out your discus and, for that matter, any other fish.

    Willie
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    Registered Member Shan_Evolved's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    Thanks for the advice willie.



    Update:

    So my turq and cobalt as seen in this video has "moods" They will get dark occasionally but lighten up later.

    The remaining 5 are still here so that's good.

    Their appetite is very little, but they do eat. I feed them cobalt flakes, hikari blood worms, FDBW, and soon sera granules. But unforunately they do not devour any of the food. Sometimes they will ignore it for a long time, but eventually I'll see it gone. So they are eating, just not voraciously. This worries me. Is this a sign of not getting better?


    Other info: Tank has been gradually 20% a day water changed into my new R/O Right + seachem alkaline buffer mix. My new water water is at roughly 8.0 PH, 4KH. I check the PH of my tank water and it's the strangest thing -- they PH in the tank stays at a steady 7.6 ish. Somehow the PH is still dropping in the tank at the same amount as it did with crushed coral only. Before it was a 7.2-6.6 drop, now its a 8.0-7.6 drop. The PH does not change in my bucket for a whole week, but once put in my tank it goes down. I will keep checking PH of my tank.

    What do you guys think? Are they getting better?
    Amateur discuskeeper, Professional doofus

  14. #179
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    I don't see anything wrong with the discus, except that they're intimidated by the huge tank. Discus have been crowded their entire lives and do not take readily to huge tanks.

    Willie
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    Default Re: Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

    did you guys consider gill flukes ?
    this would explain the head flicking and rubbing on objects .
    also discus with a heavy infestation of flukes will quite often get protozoa problems as well .
    PP if dosed right will eventually get rid of them (don't ask me how i know ) but has to be repeated every 5 days for at least 3 times .
    i don't agree to add PP during a treatment , i just dose once and it usually stays pink for 20-30 min .
    add just enough hydrogen peroxide to make the water clear .
    do water change as normal after this treatment .
    i almost gave up the hobby because of these gillflukes myself .
    i feel your pain !
    BTW if you have access to a microscope , even a simple one you can see them easy on the gills of recently dead fish .
    just a thought .

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